The Vegans out there . . .

  • phill

    Posts: 117

    Jan 06, 2009 4:58 AM GMT
    Ill take the bait.

    Veganism is multifasceted as to the reasons of why one would chose it, whether for health, idealism, or spiritual ethos. Your definition your using is worded so that it has no choice but to butt up against an argument.

    Veganism at its core is to lessen the suffering of animals through personal choices in lifestyle which includes abstaining from participating actively in cruelty. Even in this definition there is room for various levels of participation. People who use items that are tested on animals but abstain from animal ingredients, people who drink alcohol with animal ingredients in it, people who eat refined sugar still. All are vegan it is to what level they wish to take it to based on their spiritual moral of health proclivities.

    For me i am a vegan to lessen the suffering on sentient beings through abstaining from eating wearing or preferably supporting companies that would seek to harm animals. Being a vegan you always get these questions, and to me it appears that it is an attack based on one of two things, lack of information (which is an aspect of fear, even if it subconscious), or remorse for their part in the equation of eating meat again even if it is a subconscious motivation.

    In general i am alright with others eating meat, i would advise knowing where your food comes from, and chose healthier cuts of meat from small time producers of products. Meat is not meant to be an every meal option but has become this in modern times, which leads to heart disease and a slew of others conditions. I am also an animal rights activist who uses welfarism to further his cause. While i would love to see the phasing out of meat in diet i am a realist and understand that cultural as well as media influenced societal normatives play a large roll in what we eat, when we eat, and how we feel about what we eat.

    I protest the use of animals in experimentation and animals used in entertainment as well as unusually cruel practices in animal agriculture (foie gras, being one of them) because i believe that even if society is not ready to give up the notion of meat production and eating of meat then the animals still should have some modicum of protection against negligence and abuse.

    As far as using fuel to drive, bone meal to grow organic vegetables, animal parts in vulcanized tires this is a slippery slope and again is only valid in context of why one became a vegan. In my case it is something i strive to do without. I grow or attempt to grow my own food when i can, i bike ride and walk when i can in order to lesson the impact i have on animals welbeings as well as my own reliance on a system that i find inheriently just.

    At protests often people who walk by scream things like get a job or why are you not out protesting against the war or child abuse, as if champing one cause makes you exclusive property of that cause. Being vegan is a life style and an ideal and as such there are varying level in which people strive to become (raw food, Animal rights activist, vegetarian then vegan) we are all trying in our own way to find a better path for what ever reason away from a current system that utilizes sentient beings as commodities instead of valuing intrinsically the worth of all beings.

    I am alright with you calling me a hypocrite because i know myself my intentions and the path i am on are right for me. I strive, learn and grow and in doing so come closer to my ideal of what i should be. Life is circuitous and and such we are presented with lessons that repeat sometimes deeper sometimes more superficially until we learn what we are desirous of, but it is the journey and not the end result that is of consequence.

    I hope this has helped.
  • phill

    Posts: 117

    Jan 06, 2009 5:00 AM GMT
    third paragraph from the bottom should have read "inherently unjust"
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    Jan 06, 2009 5:04 AM GMT
    phill saidIll take the bait.

    Veganism is multifasceted as to the reasons of why one would chose it, whether for health, idealism, or spiritual ethos. Your definition your using is worded so that it has no choice but to butt up against an argument.

    Veganism at its core is to lessen the suffering of animals through personal choices in lifestyle which includes abstaining from participating actively in cruelty. Even in this definition there is room for various levels of participation. People who use items that are tested on animals but abstain from animal ingredients, people who drink alcohol with animal ingredients in it, people who eat refined sugar still. All are vegan it is to what level they wish to take it to based on their spiritual moral of health proclivities.

    For me i am a vegan to lessen the suffering on sentient beings through abstaining from eating wearing or preferably supporting companies that would seek to harm animals. Being a vegan you always get these questions, and to me it appears that it is an attack based on one of two things, lack of information (which is an aspect of fear, even if it subconscious), or remorse for their part in the equation of eating meat again even if it is a subconscious motivation.

    In general i am alright with others eating meat, i would advise knowing where your food comes from, and chose healthier cuts of meat from small time producers of products. Meat is not meant to be an every meal option but has become this in modern times, which leads to heart disease and a slew of others conditions. I am also an animal rights activist who uses welfarism to further his cause. While i would love to see the phasing out of meat in diet i am a realist and understand that cultural as well as media influenced societal normatives play a large roll in what we eat, when we eat, and how we feel about what we eat.

    I protest the use of animals in experimentation and animals used in entertainment as well as unusually cruel practices in animal agriculture (foie gras, being one of them) because i believe that even if society is not ready to give up the notion of meat production and eating of meat then the animals still should have some modicum of protection against negligence and abuse.

    As far as using fuel to drive, bone meal to grow organic vegetables, animal parts in vulcanized tires this is a slippery slope and again is only valid in context of why one became a vegan. In my case it is something i strive to do without. I grow or attempt to grow my own food when i can, i bike ride and walk when i can in order to lesson the impact i have on animals welbeings as well as my own reliance on a system that i find inheriently just.

    At protests often people who walk by scream things like get a job or why are you not out protesting against the war or child abuse, as if champing one cause makes you exclusive property of that cause. Being vegan is a life style and an ideal and as such there are varying level in which people strive to become (raw food, Animal rights activist, vegetarian then vegan) we are all trying in our own way to find a better path for what ever reason away from a current system that utilizes sentient beings as commodities instead of valuing intrinsically the worth of all beings.

    I am alright with you calling me a hypocrite because i know myself my intentions and the path i am on are right for me. I strive, learn and grow and in doing so come closer to my ideal of what i should be. Life is circuitous and and such we are presented with lessons that repeat sometimes deeper sometimes more superficially until we learn what we are desirous of, but it is the journey and not the end result that is of consequence.

    I hope this has helped.


    much better wording then what's his face up there lol

    and i too actually eat organic veggies and fruits everyday and my meats are mostly* organic, save the chicken i buy in bulk at costco.
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    Jan 06, 2009 5:21 AM GMT
    Right now I'm reading The Food Revolution by John Robbins. The book contains a lot of information about how meat-based diets increase the risks for heart disease and cancers. It's supports its claims with scientific evidence and also offers some opposing views from the meat industry. It's an eye-opener to say the least.

    I'm not that far into it but the writing about dioxin was shocking. The levels of dioxin in red meats and diary is ridiculous.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dioxin

    Absolute veganism sounds abusrb, by the way.

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    Jan 06, 2009 5:23 AM GMT
    I don't think Veganism is a bad idea; I just don't prefer to try it. I only think it gets crazy when some people try to make their dogs or cats eat like a vegetarian. Yes, I've actually heard of this. icon_neutral.gif
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    Jan 06, 2009 5:26 AM GMT
    A lot of idiotic responses to this thread.

    Bill Clinton once said something about not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

    So an attempt to minimize harm is meaningless if you cause any harm?

    I'm not a vegan, but I do think most of the people responding here--including the diarist--are talking out of the assholes.


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    Jan 06, 2009 5:33 AM GMT
    RunnerBen saidA lot of idiotic responses to this thread.

    Bill Clinton once said something about not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

    So an attempt to minimize harm is meaningless if you cause any harm?

    I'm not a vegan, but I do think most of the people responding here--including the diarist--are talking out of the assholes.




    I've actually heard of a kosher way to slaughter animals. From my understanding, it is done in a way that only allows minimal suffering. It is ritualistic slaughtering that is very strict in its practice, and is also (I think) organic.
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    Jan 06, 2009 5:49 AM GMT
    LOL. Yep, it went to a flame war. Always does. LOL.

    Cry me a river, but, I'm headed to the buffet to have me some dead cow, fish, and poultry. YUMMY.

    The wonderful thing about being at the top of the food chain is the GOOD EATING.

    This topic always makse me get a Pavlov response. Meat is YUMMY. My saliva is running as I type this.

    flex89 is off in the kitchen making us dead chicken now. YUMM.
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    Jan 06, 2009 5:55 AM GMT
    flex210 saidLOL. Yep, it went to a flame war. Always does. LOL.

    Cry me a river, but, I'm headed to the buffet to have me some dead cow, fish, and poultry. YUMMY.

    I wonderful thing about being at the top of the food chain is the GOOD EATING.

    This topic always make me get a Pavlov response. Meat is YUMMY.


    Oh, behave Chucky.
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    Jan 09, 2009 2:34 PM GMT
    An addition to the view --

    While animals take years to mature, plants often reach maturity in a single season (fowl and fish being an exception), and you can believe that while they eat plants and dump their refuse quite fastidiously, the reason is that they don't want to eat something they've just gotten rid of, their body already knows it can't use it, it's tried it once already.

    With that said, free range meat and poultry is much better and preferred to the penned kind because the unpenned animals often have no problems finding areas that have already been grown over with a full fresh season of vegetation growth, and free of overcrowded waste dumped in the same field.

    While kosher may be a ritualistic method to minimize suffering of the animal, it should also be noted that kosher should extend to the way the animal is raised - no suffering during it's lifetime.

    I'd like to see the roadways lifted off the terrain completely, the polluted water from machine products (oils and fuels and road material like tar) taken to places to be recycled. That means making the highways high enough to keep from disrupting migration patterns for wildlife allowing a healthy mix of animals who weren't mated with a truck. This would mean a greener planet because often in the process of animals eating vegetation, the seeds they ate can often be found growing in their dung after the first few rainfalls.

    This would reduce the number of greenhouse gas emissions because more plants would be taking in the carbon dioxide as a part of the photosynthesis process and making oxygen.

    We all could use some clean air.

    Save a natural farmer - don't kill a squirrel.