A new "ad" in CMYK magazine.

  • Menergy_1

    Posts: 751

    Jan 14, 2009 3:29 PM GMT
    DiverScience saidI think that most people, including the head of CMYK are missing why this ad is so bad and insidious.

    It's not that it's homophobic.

    It's that it was a CLASS assignment which REQUIRED the use of a blatantly misogynist headline, that was then PUBLISHED without thought. Just because it's a riff on an old stereotype does not make it "ok" to continue the longstanding tradition of saying, "That which we view as feminine is inferior."

    It's small, it's subtle, and the mere inability of Curtis to understand WHY it's so bad reveals how damaging and pervasive the problem is.


    What he said.
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    Jan 14, 2009 5:14 PM GMT
    ditto
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    Jan 14, 2009 5:25 PM GMT
    AbFab1 said
    jms84 said
    Red_Vespa saidCall me dense ("You're dense!" -- TY) but how does this sell Nike footwear? Is there some part of this ad we're not seeing? Can someone enlighten me, please?



    it's a shitty way to go about advertising, but it's gonna work.

    i hope whoever appreciates this ad calls their kid "Champ", and then has his ass handed to him on a platter by a dainty dancer.



    Yeah, maybe Sarah Palin's next kid will be named "Champ" and also be the next Barishnikov/Nureyev with an "SO" ! Just desserts.....

    I'd pit most any dancer (ballet or Broadway) against most any sport athlete and see who wins out after 10-15 minutes of continuous, non-stop strenuous athletic performance -- odds in my favor it's the dancer! But who's "butch"? and "sports rule" icon_rolleyes.gif


    Ditto! Why would they alienate perhaps the most serious and devoted group of athletes in the world?

    And lilTanker, if they're perpetuating the stereotype that ballet=gay, and that's bad... it's also homophobic.
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    Jan 14, 2009 5:27 PM GMT
    PHLmuscle8 saidCaslon - where exactly is the anti-gay reference? I don't see anything specifically. Anti-"femme" is not anti-gay.

    The ad is ironic. Open to interpretation. And, like all humor, imbued with a kernal of truth.






    I think the vast majority of people that are "anti-femme" feel that way because "femme" = dick in ass.
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    Jan 14, 2009 5:31 PM GMT
    I lol'd a little bit in my pants.

    On the note of homocil: If I had a son who was femme and more into dancing and bedazziling shirts, I'd feel as though I had failed as a father..
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    Jan 14, 2009 5:58 PM GMT
    mickeytopogigio saidIronically, this art director is likely gay.

    Oh, and to the one or two here who'd have issues with a son going to ballet, fuck you.


    Yeah ditto. I wonder how prevalent is the phenomenon of gay sons of a gay parent or parents having trouble coming out because of their homophobic father(s)?

    If being against men becoming ballet dancers isn't about homosexuality then what is it? Something against the art form? Then why aren't you against ballerinas? Is it against all things you perceive to be feminine? That's pretty sexist and just as bad.

    Gender stereotypes/role play have EVERYTHING to do with sexuality and sexual orientation.

    To these commenters I prescribe an immediate viewing of "Billy Elliot" to warm over your icy, homophobic soul.
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    Jan 14, 2009 6:07 PM GMT
    JayneCobb saidI lol'd a little bit in my pants.

    On the note of homocil: If I had a son who was femme and more into dancing and bedazziling shirts, I'd feel as though I had failed as a father..


    So, "success" as a father would be to suppress your son's expression? To make him feel bad about himself? What horrible instincts. You just preemptively failed as a father.

    You guys, it's 2009. The time to discard post-WWII pop-culture parenting ideas and gender stereotypes was umm.... during WWII.

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    Jan 14, 2009 6:11 PM GMT
    JayneCobb saidI lol'd a little bit in my pants.

    On the note of homocil: If I had a son who was femme and more into dancing and bedazziling shirts, I'd feel as though I had failed as a father..


    And just like the last line of the joke commercial for homocil says, "It's your problem, not his." I think that last line is the crux of the sketch. Parents shouldn't fear their children's likes, tastes, or personalities, so long as they are not hurting others or themselves. If I have a son, I'd rather him to like crew, football, baseball, and things like camping/hiking/backpacking because I would be able to relate to those things. But If he's happy doing femmy things and likes dance, then I'll have to encourage him.
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    Jan 14, 2009 6:12 PM GMT
    WTF was THAT shit?!?!?!?!?
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    Jan 14, 2009 6:23 PM GMT
    pcsean28 said
    JayneCobb saidI lol'd a little bit in my pants.

    On the note of homocil: If I had a son who was femme and more into dancing and bedazziling shirts, I'd feel as though I had failed as a father..


    So, "success" as a father would be to suppress your son's expression? To make him feel bad about himself? What horrible instincts. You just preemptively failed as a father.


    I personally would feel as though I was not as large of an impact in my childs life as I thought I could have been should my son take up dance. Like he didn't look up to me as a father.

    Well I was gunna go on this whole tangent about how ballet is a womens activity and how it serves no purpose for a man to participate blah blah blah, then talk about how "mens" sports are tough and spew about how men are supposed to be the protectors of the house and what not. (That was a long run-on sentance)

    But I'm to lazy from class to really write anything coherent.
    And really I'm constipated on debating this (couldn't give a shit).
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    Jan 14, 2009 6:28 PM GMT
    Talk to any sports medicine person and they will talk your leg off about the athletic abilities of professional dancers. Most athletes themselves recognize this and use ballet or ballroom (don't think cheesy Dancing with the Stars) as a way to tone up/stay in shape. So dancers really are athletes without the bling or respect of other athletes.

    Hard to criticize the ad for a girly stereotype when there's thread after thread on here of masculine vs. femmy guys.
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    Jan 14, 2009 6:30 PM GMT
    May the Lavender Fairy save us from the idiot fags who think it's fun to mock and scorn the femmy queers along with their homophobic buddies.
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    Jan 14, 2009 6:37 PM GMT
    Tonyvoyager saidMay the Lavender Fairy save us from the idiot fags who think it's fun to mock and scorn the femmy queers along with their homophobic buddies.

    I guess it just the way I was raised to believe that the man should.. well be the man of the household. I was bred to act like a man, my female friends were bred to act like women. Just because your gay doesn't mean you HAVE to be a fag.

    And just a little FYI, I have no homophobic straight friends. My gay friends are the ones who make fun of queens; I've never heard any of my straight friends make one remark about them.
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    Jan 14, 2009 6:41 PM GMT
    JayneCobb said
    pcsean28 said
    JayneCobb saidI lol'd a little bit in my pants.

    On the note of homocil: If I had a son who was femme and more into dancing and bedazziling shirts, I'd feel as though I had failed as a father..


    So, "success" as a father would be to suppress your son's expression? To make him feel bad about himself? What horrible instincts. You just preemptively failed as a father.


    I personally would feel as though I was not as large of an impact in my childs life as I thought I could have been should my son take up dance. Like he didn't look up to me as a father.

    Well I was gunna go on this whole tangent about how ballet is a womens activity and how it serves no purpose for a man to participate blah blah blah, then talk about how "mens" sports are tough and spew about how men are supposed to be the protectors of the house and what not. (That was a long run-on sentance)

    But I'm to lazy from class to really write anything coherent.
    And really I'm constipated on debating this (couldn't give a shit).


    That's really interesting. I'm glad you put it that way (your first sentence). I think that's probably a common dilemma. You should realize, I guess, that there are ways of showing admiration, and respect, "looking up" to someone without just imitating them. It's okay I guess to have certain goals in mind for your child, but most importantly one of those goals should be that they are true to themselves.

    And I'm sorry, but saying ballet is for women is simply untrue and kinda ludicrous. What about the thousands of men who have made successful careers in ballet? Just because an activity doesn't serve a purpose for YOU, doesn't mean it won't serve a purpose for all men. I think you don't realize how "tough" and "athletic" ballet dancers have to be. And how the fuck does interest in a certain art form have anything to do with your caveman notions of "protecting" the house?

    It would be a healthy exercise for you to try to figure out where all this baggage comes from. You'd be a happier person.

    Sorry, that sounds condescending, but it's true that we should all learn to "unpack our bias". It just helps to know more about the world around us by not being blinded by dogma.

    And I should say that I think certain values that are characterized as masculine are good values. I think all people, men and women, should be tough and know how to stand up for themselves. That's just basic self-esteem, and it's good for you. But you get into trouble when you start applying that to specific behaviors as the ONLY ones that are acceptable versions of this value. In fact, if your son did sports, or hunted, or whatever it is you think being a "protector" is, only because you expected him to and not because he really wanted to, well then isn't that the OPPOSITE of what you're trying to do? Doesn't that make him a pushover and a yes-man?

    There's a difference between being an authoritative parent and an authoritarian parent. The former is decidedly better.
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    Jan 14, 2009 6:51 PM GMT
    pcsean28 saidAnd how the fuck does interest in a certain art form have anything to do with your caveman notions of "protecting" the house?

    It would be a healthy exercise for you to try to figure out where all this baggage comes from. You'd be a happier person.


    Say someone breaks into your house. Do you plan to pirroet around and expect them to drop there weapon and run away? Or maybe you'll decide they need a makeover and a wardrobe change? Will they flee in terror? (The answer is no in case you're wondering.)
    And protect the house isn't "caveman" in thinking. By "house" I mean protecting the people you love and the life you've built for yourself. It's ridiculous to believe that you can just live your whole life, not worrying about danger and that the world is sunshine and daises. The world isn't a 100% friendly and happy place; with one phone call foreign troops could be busting down your doors and bombs could be dropping into your city (yes an extreme notion but the point still stands). ...so tired.

    And I'm happy as hell by the way icon_biggrin.gif.
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    Jan 14, 2009 6:59 PM GMT
    JayneCobb said
    pcsean28 saidAnd how the fuck does interest in a certain art form have anything to do with your caveman notions of "protecting" the house?

    It would be a healthy exercise for you to try to figure out where all this baggage comes from. You'd be a happier person.


    Say someone breaks into your house. Do you plan to pirroet around and expect them to drop there weapon and run away? Or maybe you'll decide they need a makeover and a wardrobe change? Will they flee in terror? (The answer is no in case you're wondering.)
    And protect the house isn't "caveman" in thinking. By "house" I mean protecting the people you love and the life you've built for yourself. It's ridiculous to believe that you can just live your whole life, not worrying about danger and that the world is sunshine and daises. The world isn't a 100% friendly and happy place; with one phone call foreign troops could be busting down your doors and bombs could be dropping into your city (yes an extreme notion but the point still stands). ...so tired.

    And I'm happy as hell by the way icon_biggrin.gif.


    I edited my post... check it out.

    You scenario is ridiculous and you know it. What if your son became a quarterback? Or a kicker? Is he going to fend off a burglar with an oblong, leather bag of air? So... as long as your son doesn't practice dance, he's safe from foreign invaders? Actually the best way to protect yourself from those things is to not vote for Republicans... but I get the sense you probably disagree with that, too.

    Yeah someone who is constantly in fear of bombs and boogeymen sounds just as happy as can be.
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    Jan 14, 2009 7:03 PM GMT
    Isn't it a bit more reasonable to think that someone who has knowledge and is trained in a contact sport and has a higher threshold of pain (and generally isn't afraid of it) has a better chance in a fight?

    If there was a fight between the Colts and the crew of The Nutcraker, my money is on the Colts.

    I don't remember talking about the boogieman? And I am in no way afraid of death lol.
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    Jan 14, 2009 7:12 PM GMT
    JayneCobb saidIsn't it a bit more reasonable to think that someone who has knowledge and is trained in a contact sport and has a higher threshold of pain (and generally isn't afraid of it) has a better chance in a fight?

    I don't remember talking about the boogieman? And I am in no way afraid of death lol.


    Dancers must have incredibly able bodies and a high threshold of pain. And contact sports do you no good against a gun.

    But we're descending into ridiculous anecdotal arguments, and they're beside the point that being a good parent is just letting your kids be who they're going to be as long as they have some code of basic decent values. As a gay man I'm surprised you don't understand that.
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    Jan 14, 2009 7:17 PM GMT
    Yeah I'm getting bored with this.

    Bottom line, yes I'd love my son.
    No, I wouldn't be happy about him being a dancer but what am I going to do? Beat him until he changes his ways? He's not an Indian for gods sakes. (Thats a joke, but I'm sure I'll get flamed anyway so bring it.)
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    Jan 14, 2009 7:22 PM GMT
    JayneCobb saidIsn't it a bit more reasonable to think that someone who has knowledge and is trained in a contact sport and has a higher threshold of pain (and generally isn't afraid of it) has a better chance in a fight?

    If there was a fight between the Colts and the crew of The Nutcraker, my money is on the Colts.

    I don't remember talking about the boogieman? And I am in no way afraid of death lol.




    i lift bitches fatter than you over my head and twirl around the room with them. what makes you think i couldn't pirouette right over to your ignorant ass, yank you up by your lips, and unceremoniously beat the shit out of you?
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    Jan 14, 2009 7:24 PM GMT
    JayneCobb saidYeah I'm getting bored with this.

    Bottom line, yes I'd love my son.
    No, I wouldn't be happy about him being a dancer but what am I going to do? Beat him until he changes his ways? He's not an Indian for gods sakes. (Thats a joke, but I'm sure I'll get flamed anyway so bring it.)


    Indian? I don't get the reference.

    Anyway, I sure wouldn't feel loved if my father was "unhappy" with me doing something I'm passionate about. I would probably feel alienated and think he was a bad father... oh wait, that sounds really familiar.

    Sorry you're bored. Good luck raising a perfect clone of yourself. I'm sure it'll go well. What was that you said about living in a fantasy world where everyone is safe and everything is perfect?

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    Jan 14, 2009 7:26 PM GMT
    dancerjack said
    JayneCobb saidIsn't it a bit more reasonable to think that someone who has knowledge and is trained in a contact sport and has a higher threshold of pain (and generally isn't afraid of it) has a better chance in a fight?

    If there was a fight between the Colts and the crew of The Nutcraker, my money is on the Colts.

    I don't remember talking about the boogieman? And I am in no way afraid of death lol.




    i lift bitches fatter than you over my head and twirl around the room with them. what makes you think i couldn't pirouette right over to your ignorant ass, yank you up by your lips, and unceremoniously beat the shit out of you?


    Awesome... now I'm wondering why I haven't already hot listed you...
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    Jan 14, 2009 7:29 PM GMT
    dancerjack saidi lift bitches fatter than you over my head and twirl around the room with them. what makes you think i couldn't pirouette right over to your ignorant ass, yank you up by your lips, and unceremoniously beat the shit out of you?

    Welcoming all challengers. icon_wink.gif

    pcsean28Anyway, I sure wouldn't feel loved if my father was "unhappy" with me doing something I'm passionate about. I would probably feel alienated and think he was a bad father... oh wait, that sounds really familiar.

    Well my father loved me playing contact sports, but he was still a shitty father. The two arn't synonymous.
    I'm assuming your stigma of contact sports comes from your own father?
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    Jan 14, 2009 7:35 PM GMT
    dancerjack said
    JayneCobb saidIsn't it a bit more reasonable to think that someone who has knowledge and is trained in a contact sport and has a higher threshold of pain (and generally isn't afraid of it) has a better chance in a fight?

    If there was a fight between the Colts and the crew of The Nutcraker, my money is on the Colts.

    I don't remember talking about the boogieman? And I am in no way afraid of death lol.




    i lift bitches fatter than you over my head and twirl around the room with them. what makes you think i couldn't pirouette right over to your ignorant ass, yank you up by your lips, and unceremoniously beat the shit out of you?


    ...ok, this totally counters the side of the argument that I fall on....that people should be allowed to be who they are. ... but, it's funny ....then again, really, dude! ... icon_eek.gif ... icon_lol.gif
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    Jan 14, 2009 7:38 PM GMT
    JayneCobb said
    dancerjack saidi lift bitches fatter than you over my head and twirl around the room with them. what makes you think i couldn't pirouette right over to your ignorant ass, yank you up by your lips, and unceremoniously beat the shit out of you?

    Welcoming all challengers. icon_wink.gif

    pcsean28Anyway, I sure wouldn't feel loved if my father was "unhappy" with me doing something I'm passionate about. I would probably feel alienated and think he was a bad father... oh wait, that sounds really familiar.

    Well my father loved me playing contact sports, but he was still a shitty father. The two arn't synonymous.
    I'm assuming your stigma of contact sports comes from your own father?


    It's interesting, I actually love sports and wish I had played them more as a kid. But it was my Dad's attitude that I had to be good right away and that the sports were forced that really turned me off to sports and him. He also generally disapproved of me and my personality which made him a bad father. Remember you're the one that disapproves of dancing, I don't have any problem with sports.
    In fact, I think if you have common interests with your son it's amazing and you're lucky, but if you don't, that's not what's going to make you a bad father.

    Also, my dad and I get along really well now. Pretty much ever since we had a stand off when I was like 18 that involved fists. Ironically, we actually bond really well over sports (also politics, world view, etc.) and I'm happy with our relationship. But I still feel twinges of pain every once in awhile remembering how he raised me.