Would you ever bottom bareback for a person who is HIV+ and 'undetectable'

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    Jan 08, 2015 12:54 AM GMT
    Let's start with the biggest one that No one on treatment has aquired HIV.

    The partners study eliminated persons who contracted HIV during the study casting doubt on the claims you make based on manipulations and exclusions to inflate the success rate.

    Don't bother with excuses, instead I'll apply the same criteria you applied anything but TasP. For eg. the inferences about condoms being ineffective and your rejection of any suggestion that attitudes toward casual sex need to change.

    We will go through the rest 1 by 1
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    Jan 08, 2015 1:04 AM GMT
    I have already posted evidence that a significant increase in testing coincided with the introduction of the law requiring disclosure of HIV status. You have claimed that the opposite has been happening

    Please do reply and ensure you actually answer the question
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    Jan 09, 2015 9:10 AM GMT
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 saidI have already posted evidence that a significant increase in testing coincided with the introduction of the law requiring disclosure of HIV status. You have claimed that the opposite has been happening

    Please do reply and ensure you actually answer the question


    Where? What link?
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    Jan 09, 2015 9:16 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 saidLet's start with the biggest one that No one on treatment has aquired HIV.

    The partners study eliminated persons who contracted HIV during the study casting doubt on the claims you make based on manipulations and exclusions to inflate the success rate.


    It was stated in the study that people who became HIV positive were infected by people outside of the relationship. It was stated that this was proven through genetic testing. Do you understand this or are you truly as dumb as you look?


    I'll provide the exact quote AND the link (something Sydney is lax at, no surprise since his info doesn't exist).

    The results

    When asked what the study tells us about the chance of someone with an undetectable viral load transmitting HIV, presenter Alison Rodger said: "Our best estimate is it's zero."

    The main news is that in PARTNER so far there have been no transmissions within couples from a partner with an undetectable viral load, in what was estimated as 16,400 occasions of sex in the gay men and 28,000 in the heterosexuals.

    Although some of the HIV-negative partners became HIV positive (exactly how many will be revealed in later analyses), genetic testing of the HIV revealed that in all cases the virus came from someone other than the main partner.

    http://www.aidsmap.com/No-one-with-an-undetectable-viral-load-gay-or-heterosexual-transmits-HIV-in-first-two-years-of-PARTNER-study/page/2832748/
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    Jan 09, 2015 4:12 PM GMT
    timmm55 said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 saidLet's start with the biggest one that No one on treatment has aquired HIV.

    The partners study eliminated persons who contracted HIV during the study casting doubt on the claims you make based on manipulations and exclusions to inflate the success rate.


    It was stated in the study that people who became HIV positive were infected by people outside of the relationship. It was stated that this was proven through genetic testing. Do you understand this or are you truly as dumb as you look?


    I'll provide the exact quote AND the link (something Sydney is lax at, no surprise since his info doesn't exist).

    The results

    When asked what the study tells us about the chance of someone with an undetectable viral load transmitting HIV, presenter Alison Rodger said: "Our best estimate is it's zero."

    The main news is that in PARTNER so far there have been no transmissions within couples from a partner with an undetectable viral load, in what was estimated as 16,400 occasions of sex in the gay men and 28,000 in the heterosexuals.

    Although some of the HIV-negative partners became HIV positive (exactly how many will be revealed in later analyses), genetic testing of the HIV revealed that in all cases the virus came from someone other than the main partner.

    http://www.aidsmap.com/No-one-with-an-undetectable-viral-load-gay-or-heterosexual-transmits-HIV-in-first-two-years-of-PARTNER-study/page/2832748/


    What ever reason you cite it doesn't change the fact that people were infectec during the partner study so please make sure you include this fact before claims are made which are incorrect. It is very important as you continuously stating that undectable HIV + people is the safest sex anyone can have.
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    Jan 09, 2015 4:19 PM GMT
    timmm55 saidHIV most often passed on by younger gay men who have undiagnosed HIV, are not on treatment, and have an ongoing partnership

    http://www.aidsmap.com/HIV-most-often-passed-on-by-younger-gay-men-who-have-undiagnosed-HIV-are-not-on-treatment-and-have-an-ongoing-partnership/page/2928944/

    Simply put: Men who are living with HIV without being aware of it cannot take HIV treatment and cannot make informed decisions about their sexual behaviour, so are more likely to pass HIV on.

    There is no BB agenda. There aren't Undetectable men "gift giving"......simply there are 1 in 5 who just don't know. Ignorance breeds HIV.


    Who passed in on to them in the first place?? What about the men who are knowingly POZ and take no responsibility for preventing transmisson to others. You are actually the one spreading ignorance through your anti-non disclosure of HIV status. How is that not spreading idiocy which is what comes from your posts each and every time
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    Jan 09, 2015 4:19 PM GMT
    timmm55 saidHIV most often passed on by younger gay men who have undiagnosed HIV, are not on treatment, and have an ongoing partnership

    http://www.aidsmap.com/HIV-most-often-passed-on-by-younger-gay-men-who-have-undiagnosed-HIV-are-not-on-treatment-and-have-an-ongoing-partnership/page/2928944/

    Simply put: Men who are living with HIV without being aware of it cannot take HIV treatment and cannot make informed decisions about their sexual behaviour, so are more likely to pass HIV on.

    There is no BB agenda. There aren't Undetectable men "gift giving"......simply there are 1 in 5 who just don't know. Ignorance breeds HIV.


    Who passed in on to them in the first place?? What about the men who are knowingly POZ and take no responsibility for preventing transmisson to others. You are actually the one spreading ignorance through your anti-non disclosure of HIV status. How is that not spreading idiocy which is what comes from your posts each and every time
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    Jan 09, 2015 8:24 PM GMT
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 said
    timmm55 saidHIV most often passed on by younger gay men who have undiagnosed HIV, are not on treatment, and have an ongoing partnership

    http://www.aidsmap.com/HIV-most-often-passed-on-by-younger-gay-men-who-have-undiagnosed-HIV-are-not-on-treatment-and-have-an-ongoing-partnership/page/2928944/

    Simply put: Men who are living with HIV without being aware of it cannot take HIV treatment and cannot make informed decisions about their sexual behaviour, so are more likely to pass HIV on.

    There is no BB agenda. There aren't Undetectable men "gift giving"......simply there are 1 in 5 who just don't know. Ignorance breeds HIV.


    Who passed in on to them in the first place?? What about the men who are knowingly POZ and take no responsibility for preventing transmisson to others. You are actually the one spreading ignorance through your anti-non disclosure of HIV status. How is that not spreading idiocy which is what comes from your posts each and every time


    Does it matter who "Patient Zero" was? It stops here and now. And no, there were more before Randy Shilts embellished that story. Do you want to sue the infected raw monkey meat who passed it on in the first place?

    Intentional HIV transmissions are a vast minority. But it makes good copy.
    HIV is a virus, not a crime: ten reasons against criminal statutes and criminal prosecutions
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2635346/

    Do you understand that being against HIV criminalization is not the same thing as being for HIV disclosure?
    Criminalization does NOT help with disclosure. It's a hindrance.

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    Mar 18, 2015 8:42 AM GMT
    timmm55 said
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 said
    timmm55 saidHIV most often passed on by younger gay men who have undiagnosed HIV, are not on treatment, and have an ongoing partnership

    http://www.aidsmap.com/HIV-most-often-passed-on-by-younger-gay-men-who-have-undiagnosed-HIV-are-not-on-treatment-and-have-an-ongoing-partnership/page/2928944/

    Simply put: Men who are living with HIV without being aware of it cannot take HIV treatment and cannot make informed decisions about their sexual behaviour, so are more likely to pass HIV on.

    There is no BB agenda. There aren't Undetectable men "gift giving"......simply there are 1 in 5 who just don't know. Ignorance breeds HIV.


    Who passed in on to them in the first place?? What about the men who are knowingly POZ and take no responsibility for preventing transmisson to others. You are actually the one spreading ignorance through your anti-non disclosure of HIV status. How is that not spreading idiocy which is what comes from your posts each and every time


    Does it matter who "Patient Zero" was? It stops here and now. And no, there were more before Randy Shilts embellished that story. Do you want to sue the infected raw monkey meat who passed it on in the first place?

    Intentional HIV transmissions are a vast minority. But it makes good copy.
    HIV is a virus, not a crime: ten reasons against criminal statutes and criminal prosecutions
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2635346/

    Do you understand that being against HIV criminalization is not the same thing as being for HIV disclosure?
    Criminalization does NOT help with disclosure. It's a hindrance.


    Timm having read through that article there is doubt cast on many of the assertions made recently 2010-15 about who is passing on the virus and what demographic is primarily responsible. Young gay men are more sexually active than older men of course that is nature.

    Older gay men are engaging in more risky behaviour and encouraging young men who may not have the understanding of the true nature of the risks they are exposing themselves too. It's great to have treatment options but yet again
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    Mar 18, 2015 3:30 PM GMT
    gross! never. i wouldn't do it with a condom either though. why flirt with death? seems like a form of self-sabotage.
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    Mar 18, 2015 6:35 PM GMT
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 said
    timmm55 said
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 said
    timmm55 saidHIV most often passed on by younger gay men who have undiagnosed HIV, are not on treatment, and have an ongoing partnership

    http://www.aidsmap.com/HIV-most-often-passed-on-by-younger-gay-men-who-have-undiagnosed-HIV-are-not-on-treatment-and-have-an-ongoing-partnership/page/2928944/

    Simply put: Men who are living with HIV without being aware of it cannot take HIV treatment and cannot make informed decisions about their sexual behaviour, so are more likely to pass HIV on.

    There is no BB agenda. There aren't Undetectable men "gift giving"......simply there are 1 in 5 who just don't know. Ignorance breeds HIV.


    Who passed in on to them in the first place?? What about the men who are knowingly POZ and take no responsibility for preventing transmisson to others. You are actually the one spreading ignorance through your anti-non disclosure of HIV status. How is that not spreading idiocy which is what comes from your posts each and every time


    Does it matter who "Patient Zero" was? It stops here and now. And no, there were more before Randy Shilts embellished that story. Do you want to sue the infected raw monkey meat who passed it on in the first place?

    Intentional HIV transmissions are a vast minority. But it makes good copy.
    HIV is a virus, not a crime: ten reasons against criminal statutes and criminal prosecutions
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2635346/

    Do you understand that being against HIV criminalization is not the same thing as being for HIV disclosure?
    Criminalization does NOT help with disclosure. It's a hindrance.


    Timm having read through that article there is doubt cast on many of the assertions made recently 2010-15 about who is passing on the virus and what demographic is primarily responsible. Young gay men are more sexually active than older men of course that is nature.

    Older gay men are engaging in more risky behaviour and encouraging young men who may not have the understanding of the true nature of the risks they are exposing themselves too. It's great to have treatment options but yet again


    My experience is that older gay men (most tested, more likely to be have HIV fully suppressed), who are positive and or undetectable are serosorting with their same type. And are "riskier" with their same type. (see #4 below)

    Similarly, young gay men (least likely to be tested, least likely to be fully suppressed) are serosorting with their own type....thinking they are negative. But many are NOT.
    They should be using condoms (see #1 below)
    as "ACON does not endorse serosorting in casual sexual encounters as an effective HIV prevention strategy for HIV negative men, on the grounds that ascertaining the current HIV negative status of even a familiar casual partner is inherently unreliable."

    There are now at least five strategies that reasonably constitute‘safe sex’,provided that certain parameters are met. They are:
    1.The use of Condoms during casual encounters between men of unknown or discordant serostatus.
    2.HIV negative men taking effective pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP).
    3.Men living with HIV who only have sex without condoms when they have a sustained undetectable viral load (UVL) and in the absence of sexually transmissible infections (STIs).
    4.Effective use of serosorting between HIV positive men.
    5.Effective negotiated safety agreements.

    http://www.acon.org.au/sites/default/files/What-is-Safe-Sex-Position-2014.pdf

    From the CDC Feb. 2015

    "The new study, published in JAMA Internal Medicine, estimates that 91.5 percent of new HIV infections in 2009 were attributable to people with HIV who were not in medical care, including those who didn’t know they were infected. In comparison, less than six percent of new infections could be attributed to people with HIV who were in care and receiving antiretroviral therapy."

    https://blog.aids.gov/2015/02/new-study-underscores-the-power-of-hiv-testing-and-treatment.html


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    Jun 20, 2020 3:06 AM GMT
    I have to confess that in the 80's and 90's bareback dudes who I latter found out were HIV Positive.
    Thankfully I am now middle aged, and HIV Negative. Normally once in my life, has anyone ever informed me before sex, that they were HIV Positive.