Jealous of support given to younger generation

  • craycraydoesd...

    Posts: 1042

    Jan 07, 2015 1:58 AM GMT
    bobbobbob saidThis is hilarious. The OP, CrazyCrazyDoesDoes is complaining about "Spoiled Youths." and then says. "It makes one wonder at all the possibilities that could've been if some of us older gays had a more supportive network when we were young"

    You say you were kicked out of the house when you were nineteen. That would have been around 1988. To me you're one of the young people you are now jealous of. You weren't around in the days before Homosexuality was declassified as a mental disease. Back then families could go to a judge and have a gay son or daughter picked up and indefinitely shipped away to mental institutions. Once the American Psychiatric Association changed their stand on homosexuality mental institutions across the nation began slowly and covertly releasing gay patients, some over 60 who'd been locked up most of their lives.

    You missed out on the days when in most medium to large cities at least 6 gay men a year were murdered by men who either didn't go to trial or were declared not guilty for having had to defend themselves from being attacked by gay men.

    You missed out on Anita Bryant's holy war on gays in late 1970s. No doubt you've never been in a gay bar that was raided by police and everyone hauled off to jail if they weren't already paying police protection money.

    You missed out on the first wave of the AIDS epidemic. Those of us who survived it lost as many as half our friends in less than four years.

    And you don't realize or appreciate how easy you've had it...


    I spent the first 30-odd years of my life in Serbia, during which it was illegal to be gay right up till 1994, where gay bashings still occur with the approval of many right wing groups. There wasn't even an underground scene for cops to raid. I saved enough money to immigrate after 11 years of off-and-on homelessness. The "jealousy" part is mostly tongue-in-cheek since I'm doing very well now, though I'm sure you must have had manlier challenges here in America.
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    Jan 08, 2015 2:39 AM GMT
    Kinneticbrian saidSo this 20-something got a break and his parents helped him buy a condo? Don't be jealous of him, pity him. His parents took away something that would have been a real accomplishment if he did it on his own. He probably, because of this, has no idea of the value of a dollar. Heaven help him if they ever lose their wealth and he has to actually earn something. If your parents have to help you buy a condo, they're probably enabling you to live beyond your means.

    I understand where you're coming from, but few people actually can or DO do it on their own, especially today when fewer hardworking people can afford real estate because incomes have not kept pace with housing.

    One could also argue that the pressure of paying the maintenance on a free condo provides motivation for success, and the security of having a secure roof over one's head in an expensive city with myriad educational and career opportunities promotes success.

    Consider this - I knew several people from privileged families who went to ivy league schools. All motivated, ambitious hard workers, and almost all went on to success in business, law and medicine. But the ones who wound up with the best quality of life with space to sprawl in unimaginably wonderful neighborhoods with short commutes to rewarding jobs were the ones who were either given or received substantial help in buying Manhattan apartments that, had they waited to buy themselves once they could have afforded them, they could never have afforded. Because the price of real estate (EVERYWHERE, in fact) has far outpaced incomes.

    Those who were bought NYC apartments by their parents in the '70s and '80s for a mere $50-$200K wound up, with their careers established and the funds to do so on their own without further help, trading up to multimillion dollar units later. Without that start, the opportunity to comfortably raise their children in the city instead of the suburbs may never have happened.

    For over a decade the very first piece of advice by televised financial planners to people looking to secure the funds to purchase their first homes are told this: "Get the downpayment from your parents." (Implied also is that one get a loan/funds transfer from one's parents to make themselves look more financially desirable to mortgage lenders and coop boards in better buildings that require liquid assets many times in excess the actual apartment price for approval.) Because parents today know that their children will likely never enjoy the same home buying - and home receiving - opportunities they ever had given escalating real estate prices and stricter lending and board approval requirements.

    Re being jealous of younger people being gifted apartments? Not so much because without parental help in these times home ownership may be impossible irrespective of how hard one works.

    The generation before, people I know who were gifted with NYC apartments? Absolutely. I never pitied them because the security gave them the freedom to pursue careers they loved, attend the NYC schools they wanted and live the lives they dreamed of. I remain jealous to this day, and rightfully so. I'm not proud of that, but there it is.
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    Jan 08, 2015 3:41 AM GMT
    Cash said
    eagermuscle said
    Cash said
    eagermuscle said
    69qgdt.jpg
    I know that building VERY well- the tower cupola ( which would have still been an empty shell at the time, just like the twin to the north) was added on to the apartment below and made into a double height library with an astrological theme. The apartment last sold for about 10 million dollars several years ago. That amount of money now buys a badly (albeit expensively) renovated covertable 3 bedroom combo on a lower floor.

    http://www.elliman.com/new-york-city/the-ansonia-2109-broadway-1616-manhattan-jcdgzgq


    First let me say I'm not constantly obsessing on this subject despite the length of this post (consider this thread therapeutic closure) and hadn't thought of the Ansonia for many years but in these past few I've had a few unrelated reminders of the building. I'm also assuming that luxury Manhattan real estate falls under the category of general interest gay OR straight (excepting my parents, lol). Having said that…

    Thanks to Cash I feel a little better because all these years I had the wrong apartment in mind. I figured this out when I examined the photos in his link and noticed what I'm assuming are architecturally interesting interior mansard roof structural supports which I don't recall:

    106x69z.jpg

    I always thought the unit was directly below the cupola (dome) because the broker explained the round bedroom ceiling leak as a roof leak. I thought he meant the dome; in retrospect he meant either the mansard roof, or a dome leak that damaged two floors of ceilings. So no possibility of expanding into the empty dome upping its value to $14M. But still not too shabby a unit that one directly below it:

    2ns3uz4.jpg

    15x5s1.jpg

    If you combine the vast expanses of "Cash's listing" above with the feel of the photos of another unit (below) you'll get a general idea of The Actual Huge Apartment That Got Away:

    Entry foyer 1 (the room straight ahead with the iron bed was in "my" unit a full bath; imagine the half circle foyer a full circle with concave mirrored french closet doors flanking a massive entry door in the same position but I think double the width of the transomed door to the left):
    2cohjlj.jpg

    Entry foyer 2:
    ojnzbd.jpg

    Round bedroom without fireplace (in this pic set up as living room with fireplace; I wonder if the fireplace was removed to create a place to put a bed):
    2agqlbp.jpg

    But, looking at the original Ansonia floor plan (IF it represents the top floors of the southeast corner unit, it might not unless the unit I saw had been previously subdivided from a larger one) I've just learned something else about that actual unit - there was a reason that then-gutted, pre-sponsor renovated unit had an enormous living room. The living room used to be three rooms - two bedrooms and a formal corner dining room, with the round tower bedroom intended as a living room. An apartment with that many rooms surely was originally plumbed for a second bath, or at least half bath (or maybe even a second bath PLUS a half foyer or maid's bath!). Meaning this - after purchase, it could've been easily reconfigured as a 3 bedroom, 2 bath apartment - keeping the round tower room as a bedroom but utilizing the corner formal dining room as a living room. Making the unit not only worth significantly more than a same-sized one bedroom 1 bath but big enough to not preclude eventual children (or paying roommates). An apartment-for-life. The large round room is the turrent bedroom, and the rest of the apartment lies ahead of and to the right of the small round foyer:

    Original configuration: round living room, round foyer, bedroom 1, bedroom, 2 formal dining room, eat-in kitchen, 2nd bath?:
    2j4pul0.jpg

    Gutted condo conversion configuration: round bedroom, round foyer, massive living room, eat-in kitchen:
    jh55rp.jpg

    I'd looked at three Ansonia units and 25 years later immediately picked them out on the original floor plan. Aside from the huge outside corner tower unit there were two "conventional Ansonia one bedroom apartments," also on high floors receiving lots of sun but in air shaft-like "courts," one open onto Broadway (and like the tower unit, damned noisy) and the other, still somewhat sunlit, facing the rear. The rear facing unit have a conventional layout but lots of detail including a fireplace and was listed for $140-150K. The Broadway-facing unit on an inside corner lacked a fireplace but had an oval living room and was listed for $180-189K. That's why I considered $300K for the large tower unit a huge steal. Alas...
    2ptuliv.jpg

    If anyone can provide or direct me to info and/or photos of the actual units that'd be great. Or maybe I'll just cave and call their real estate office if they'd make time for such frivolity. I checked their website and the closest comparables to the big unit sold at around $4.5-5.5M; even more than my original, previous estimate of $3.5-4M.