Should the T be dropped from LGBT?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 12, 2015 1:55 AM GMT
    In terms of political advocacy I'm fine with GLBT or just "Queer" as an umbrella label.

    As far as social/cultural identities are concerned I don't find myself having much in common with lesbians let alone transgender folks.
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    Jan 12, 2015 10:52 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    Wyndahoi said
    Art_Deco saidI thought the trend was to add MORE letters. Aren't we up to 6 or something? I liked GLBT, still haven't figured out why we switched to LGBT.

    Actually Bob we are up to 10- LGBTQQAAIP.
    Lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans*, queer, questioning, asexual, agender, intersex, pansexual.

    Try getting all that on a bumper sticker! At some point it starts to get a bit ridiculous. And that doesn't even count the ways we divide ourselves within each letter.
    Guys have masc, fem, bears, jocks, pups, cubs, otters, wolves, Ken dolls... I'm sure there are more I haven't heard of yet!

    My name is Jared and I'm in love with a man. Call me whatever you want.

    "Agender"? What the hell is that? And I'm not sure if I know what an "intersexual" is, either. I know a pansexual is something freedomisntfree has lately claimed to be, when he's not making up some other explanation for his elusive orientation. icon_rolleyes.gif


    Intersex are babies born with any of a number of conditions that make it impossible on physical examination to determine their physical sex. Agender don't want to be male or female or anything in between.
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    Jan 12, 2015 12:59 PM GMT
    Wyndahoi said
    Intersex are babies born with any of a number of conditions that make it impossible on physical examination to determine their physical sex. Agender don't want to be male or female or anything in between.

    New terms to me. Agender sounds like asexual, an existing term I do know.
  • helloandgoodb...

    Posts: 622

    Jan 12, 2015 1:27 PM GMT
    how about "non-straights" icon_confused.gif
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    Jan 12, 2015 2:49 PM GMT
    helloandgoodbi saidhow about "non-straights" icon_confused.gif


    Well that's what I think the alphabet soup is trying to accomplish - incorporate everyone who isn't gay. Not because we all share a common sexuality or gender identity, but more for combined political strength, as I wrote above.

    But being a "non-something" is usually not very popular, nor does it exude a strong position. People want to associate with a positive concept. I AM something, rather than I am NOT something, an opposite, a reverse.
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    Jan 12, 2015 2:58 PM GMT
    duluthrunner saidIn terms of political advocacy I'm fine with GLBT or just "Queer" as an umbrella label.

    As far as social/cultural identities are concerned I don't find myself having much in common with lesbians let alone transgender folks.


    Yes but you DO have something in common with Lesbians....you're both homosexual. The same cannot be said for trannies.
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    Jan 12, 2015 4:47 PM GMT
    I think maybe the best thing to do is to not overthink it and to view it as a resource group... A group for those who face similar issues, particularly when it comes to recognition of rights and health/financial benefits. The letters represent groups who are welcome.

    I totally agree that the letters are hard to keep up with. Its interesting that there is so much infighting within the gay community when you compared to other groups such as Veterans, Women, and Cultural groups.
  • AMoonHawk

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    Jan 12, 2015 4:57 PM GMT
    A better term might be NonHetro community. We could reduce down to 2 letters: NH
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    Jan 12, 2015 5:06 PM GMT
    woodfordr saidI think maybe the best thing to do is to not overthink it and to view it as a resource group... A group for those who face similar issues, particularly when it comes to recognition of rights and health/financial benefits. The letters represent groups who are welcome.

    I totally agree that the letters are hard to keep up with. Its interesting that there is so much infighting within the gay community when you compared to other groups such as Veterans, Women, and Cultural groups.


    My concern though is that aligning with us they aren't getting the kind of momenteum they need.
  • Buddha

    Posts: 1822

    Jan 12, 2015 8:47 PM GMT
    Inque said
    HottJoe said
    Inque said
    HottJoe saidThe T stays. Transgendered people have the closet trap and face homophobia too. They need the community just as much as anyone else who is not straight.









    Yes but many if not most live their lives as straight people.

    If they live their lives as straight and pass, then they are straight. For the ones that don't have that privilege, they are often in similar circumstances as gay men, in that they are called gay and face typically even more aggressive homophobia. Transgendered people are often abused, including by gay people, like anyone that degrades them or kicks them out of the club.

    You have said you don't believe in the gay community. Why kick people out of something you don't even recognize?


    I'm speaking mostly from a political standpoint. It just seems like they don't contribute much and in fact only ride our coattails. I want them to have equal rights and I'll fight alongside them but not as a brother but as an ally because we really don't have the same fight.


    While I agree that trans might not fit into the etiquette since one group concerns sexuality while the other concerns gender, the premise of your wish to expluse this group is just absurd. "They don't contribute much"? Really? It's not an office, it's about people supporting each other about an issue where both have a need to "come out" of the norm.
  • EricLA

    Posts: 3462

    Jan 12, 2015 10:07 PM GMT
    I understand the us versus them mentality, it's a common. I've lived long enough to hear people of color complain about each other, even among the African American community. People who are lighter, or even light-skinned, are often viewed as "passing" for white. Those arguments I've heard about bisexuals: "They can pass for straight and enjoy straight privilege, so why should we be fighting for their rights?"

    Well, the fact of the matter is there are limits to human rights. And whether we like it or not, I think society at large views transgender people in one whole big bucket of sexual minority issues.

    So, I say fine. Strength in numbers. Just as the lgbt community should help fight for enforcement of civil rights for people of color and for equal rights for women, we should help fight for trans rights. It tends to be the same groups working against extending protections. We will be more successful when we work together to defeat them.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 12, 2015 10:14 PM GMT
    Should you leave this site ???? yes
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    Jan 12, 2015 11:41 PM GMT
    No way. In the end we are all suffering discrimination from different institutions and society. Things have improved a lot in the latest years, that's true, but things can get worse in any time. Even if the situation is better for gay and lesbian people, it's still horrible for transgender people. We must not leave others behind because we are better now, we all need to stay together, for the better, and the worse. In the end, we all have been considered weird people because of our sexuality or mental feelings. We may be a little different somehow, but we need to support each other. If finally transgender people get out of the LGBT community, it will be so because they took that decision, not because we chose to fire them.
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    Jan 12, 2015 11:52 PM GMT
    helloandgoodbi saidhow about "non-straights" icon_confused.gif


    Im in favour of this!!
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    Jan 12, 2015 11:53 PM GMT
    asdex85 saidNo way. In the end we are all suffering discrimination from different institutions and society.


    Fine. Then you better be willing to include race, women, religion, the handicap and Little People.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 13, 2015 12:06 AM GMT
    dropping anyone from the Queer umbrella is a very bad move. There's already enough infighting in the community, and when divisive lines are drawn, groups are even easier to squish.
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    Jan 13, 2015 2:15 AM GMT
    Inque said
    woodfordr saidI think maybe the best thing to do is to not overthink it and to view it as a resource group... A group for those who face similar issues, particularly when it comes to recognition of rights and health/financial benefits. The letters represent groups who are welcome.

    I totally agree that the letters are hard to keep up with. Its interesting that there is so much infighting within the gay community when you compared to other groups such as Veterans, Women, and Cultural groups.


    My concern though is that aligning with us they aren't getting the kind of momenteum they need.


    Is this really your concern? It may be but from your post, I'm not really reading any concern but more of a wish to disassociate. "Should we 'drop the T?" just doesn't sound like ya care. I just get tired of "us" vs "them" in what we call "the gay community".
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    Jan 13, 2015 4:10 PM GMT
    GLBT is just a way to exhort money through political pressure. Every time I ask someone about gay marriage the first issue that comes up is free health care that spouses receive .
  • roadbikeRob

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    Jan 13, 2015 4:14 PM GMT
    Radd saidI've been saying this for years. I'm a little insulted that being gay is lumped together with gender confusion. That's what a lot of straight people think already so it's ridiculous to have that including under the same banner.
    I agree 100%. It is time to separate the transgender groups from our community. It should be just the GLB community, lets permanently remove the T.
  • buymeasoda

    Posts: 93

    Jan 13, 2015 4:16 PM GMT
    I think the gay community owes a lot to the Trans community. Read up on there roll during the stonewall riots. It should give you some perspective on how important they are to our community and why I want them on our team.

    I think if you weren't "Lumped in with them" Gay marriage would not be legal in Florida.

    We need to think inclusive not exclusive if we are going to beat the haters. If we start segregating ourselves we could undo all that we have fought for.

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    Jan 13, 2015 4:22 PM GMT
    Radd said
    asdex85 saidNo way. In the end we are all suffering discrimination from different institutions and society.


    Fine. Then you better be willing to include race, women, religion, the handicap and Little People.


    There's no logic to your logic, lol.
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    Jan 13, 2015 4:22 PM GMT
    buymeasoda saidI think the gay community owes a lot to the Trans community. Read up on there roll during the stonewall riots. It should give you some perspective on how important they are to our community and why I want them on our team.

    I think if you weren't "Lumped in with them" Gay marriage would not be legal in Florida.

    We need to think inclusive not exclusive if we are going to beat the haters. If we start segregating ourselves we could undo all that we have fought for.



    This.
  • roadbikeRob

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    Jan 13, 2015 4:27 PM GMT
    buymeasoda saidI think the gay community owes a lot to the Trans community. Read up on there roll during the stonewall riots. It should give you some perspective on how important they are to our community and why I want them on our team.

    I think if you weren't "Lumped in with them" Gay marriage would not be legal in Florida.

    We need to think inclusive not exclusive if we are going to beat the haters. If we start segregating ourselves we could undo all that we have fought for.

    The Transgenders have very little in common with the mainstream GLB community so they really should be separated and placed in their own category. One of the major reasons why a lot of right wing radicals detest us is most likely because we have included the transgender folks under our umbrella which gives the NARROW MINDED BIBLE THUMPING SCREWBALLS fuel to label us as recruiters to a perverse way of life. I myself am not comfortable with the idea of someone changing their gender. I am not condemning it but at the same token I am not condoning it, it is just not my cup of tea. I just feel that including transgender people in our community is a tremendous liability to our struggle for full equality. So the time is long overdue to permanently remove the "T" and set the transgenders on their own.
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    Jan 13, 2015 4:30 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    buymeasoda saidI think the gay community owes a lot to the Trans community. Read up on there roll during the stonewall riots. It should give you some perspective on how important they are to our community and why I want them on our team.

    I think if you weren't "Lumped in with them" Gay marriage would not be legal in Florida.

    We need to think inclusive not exclusive if we are going to beat the haters. If we start segregating ourselves we could undo all that we have fought for.

    The Transgenders have very little in common with the mainstream GLB community so they really should be separated and placed in their own category. One of the major reasons why a lot of right wing radicals detest us is most likely because we have included the transgender folks under our umbrella which gives the NARROW MINDED BIBLE THUMPING SCREWBALLS fuel to label us as recruiters to a perverse way of life. I myself am not comfortable with the idea of someone changing their gender. I am not condemning it but at the same token I am not condoning it, it is just not my cup of tea. I just feel that including transgender people in our community is a tremendous liability to our struggle for full equality. So the time is long overdue to permanently remove the "T" and set the transgenders on their own.



    Yet somehow in Canada we managed to gain full 100% equality WITH transgenders. How do you explain that Rob?
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    Jan 13, 2015 4:31 PM GMT
    buymeasoda saidI think the gay community owes a lot to the Trans community. Read up on there roll during the stonewall riots. It should give you some perspective on how important they are to our community and why I want them on our team.

    I think if you weren't "Lumped in with them" Gay marriage would not be legal in Florida.

    We need to think inclusive not exclusive if we are going to beat the haters. If we start segregating ourselves we could undo all that we have fought for.



    I know the history. But what I'm saying is that NOW we don't really need them and they don't really need us. Both groups have different political goals and it's not serving either side by being so closely associated with the other.