Should the T be dropped from LGBT?

  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 13, 2015 6:29 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    HottJoe said
    meninlove said *highly amused at Radd's royal 'we'*


    Thankfully, your 'we' amounts to nothing. lol

    I'm guessing he's trying to get anyone who insults him banned. Just to warn you!icon_neutral.gif
    No, he is just stating the facts. Why can't you EXTREMIST LIBERAL HENS try to open up your minds and comprehend different viewpoints. Now we all know who the ignorant, intolerant ones are on here.

    You're trying to exclude Trans people from the gay community. It's not so much that liberals don't tolerate you. It's that liberals aren't going to exclude Trans people in order to appease bigots.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 22445

    Jan 13, 2015 6:30 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    roadbikeRob said
    meninlove said *highly amused at Radd's royal 'we'*


    Thankfully, your 'we' amounts to nothing. lol
    Your opinion amounts to nothing. What Radd says is 100% factually correct. Why can't you get that through your thick Canadian national skullicon_question.gificon_mad.gif


    There's the thing, Rob. I don't go on opinion - I did my homework and got to know a sizeable number of trans from different walks of life. How about you?

    *laughing*

    ...and again, just because a few of you (the 'we') got on your soapboxes and denigrated another marginalized minority and think they should get booted off the acronym does in fact amount to nothing. Your poor ego.


    Yes you do. Don't give me that bullshit. You can do all the homework you want and cherry pick your sources but the true fact remains is that transgender has no rightful place under our umbrella. It is too much of a serious liability for the GLB community at large. They have little or nothing in common with us. Why can't you comprehend that true facticon_question.gif
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 13, 2015 6:31 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    meninlove said
    roadbikeRob said
    meninlove said *highly amused at Radd's royal 'we'*


    Thankfully, your 'we' amounts to nothing. lol
    Your opinion amounts to nothing. What Radd says is 100% factually correct. Why can't you get that through your thick Canadian national skullicon_question.gificon_mad.gif


    There's the thing, Rob. I don't go on opinion - I did my homework and got to know a sizeable number of trans from different walks of life. How about you?

    *laughing*

    ...and again, just because a few of you (the 'we') got on your soapboxes and denigrated another marginalized minority and think they should get booted off the acronym does in fact amount to nothing. Your poor ego.


    Yes you do. Don't give me that bullshit. You can do all the homework you want and cherry pick your sources but the true fact remains is that transgender has no rightful place under our umbrella. It is too much of a serious liability for the GLB community at large. They have little or nothing in common with us. Why can't you comprehend that true facticon_question.gif

    How is it a liability?
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    Jan 13, 2015 6:31 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    Radd said
    meninlove said *highly amused at Radd's royal 'we'*


    Thankfully, your 'we' amounts to nothing. lol


    That's fucking hilarious considering you're the one who always speaks in "we" terms. icon_lol.gif


    rofl, you know that when I say we it usually means Bill and I. There are after all two of us. *falls out of chair laughing*


    If you're falling out of your chair it's probably because you're drunk before noon. You might be a couple but you're still individuals with different thoughts and opinions. If you've allowed yourself to slip into that old "we know each other's thoughts" thing you're as delusional as your political views. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 13, 2015 7:03 PM GMT
    robbaker saidNo the weapon of mass destruction should be dropped on LGBT icon_razz.gif

    That's an interesting way to refer to your ass.icon_lol.gif
  • SuntoryTime

    Posts: 656

    Jan 13, 2015 7:07 PM GMT
    I don't believe so and I take comfort in the likelihood that Radd and Road's wish will go unfulfilled.
  • metta

    Posts: 54330

    Jan 13, 2015 7:09 PM GMT
    It is not going to happen and I don't have a problem with the T being there. We are all minorities that have been harmed by society for being who we are. We are all moving forward together. If the gay community can help them by including them, I think that is a good thing.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 13, 2015 7:10 PM GMT
    SuntoryTime saidI don't and I take comfort in the likelihood that Radd and Road wish will go unfulfilled.

    Radd and Road should just start dating each other. They'd make such a cute -- I mean, sweet -- I mean, they'd make such a couple.icon_razz.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 13, 2015 7:11 PM GMT
    While it's true homosexuals that are 100% happy with their gender feel they have nothing to do with transexuals, there are many gay men that are in the middle of the way (ie: the queeny, princess ones).

    Gays are not only the masculine but all the feminine and flamboyant and drag queens too. Transexuals are the extreme end of it. Basically they're all homosexual.

    Maculine ----> Fem queen ----> Trasgender

    So yeah I believe it's ok to include the T in LGTB.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 13, 2015 7:11 PM GMT
    metta8 saidIt is not going to happen and I don't have a problem with the T being there. We are all minorities that have been harmed by society for being who we are. We are all moving forward together. If the gay community can help them by including them, I think that is a good thing.

    Typical liberal, trying to be kind and thoughtful. 1,000 lashes!icon_mad.gif
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    Jan 13, 2015 7:47 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    meninlove said
    Inque said
    meninlove said O I C Rob. This is about just the US is it? rofl. In spite of your narrow minded bigotry about trans people, a great any of them are in fact, gay. I suggest doing some research about trans from trans sites.

    Here, I'll get you and a couple of others started. Did you know that same sex attraction can shift during a sex change process? Yes, it does. In many cases lesbian women that trans to men begin finding themselves attracted to ....men. This is because the orientation outside of the sex change is same sex - they are attracted to whatever sex they are. Now go do some study and learn something.

    And try to get over your ick factor.

    As I said before there are gay and lesbian trans people and they belong but because they are gay and lesbian. Most trans people live as straight


    I see, so let's throw the gay and lesbians trans under the bus because you think most are straight. Ah yes, another day on RJ.
    Transgenders have very little if anything in common with the GLB community. What part of that don't you understandicon_question.gificon_mad.gif


    They are XY's attracted to XY's, and most like it in the ass, it seems to me they have quite a lot in common with gays!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 13, 2015 7:50 PM GMT
    Put in alphabetical order BGLTicon_question.gif
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 22445

    Jan 13, 2015 7:52 PM GMT
    MikemikeMike saidPut in alphabetical order BGLTicon_question.gif
    Just permanently drop the T and make it BGL.
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    Jan 13, 2015 9:43 PM GMT
    Radd saidI can't believe how dense some of you can be. Let me simplify this for the mentally challenged:

    • No one here believes transgenders don't deserve equal rights
    • No one really cares about the percentage of transgenders who are straight
    • If a transgender happens to be gay, then by all means include them
    • We just don't feel that "transgender" should be included as a specific category under the same banner as "gay" because it's a completely separate issue.


    That's the main point I'm trying to get across. They really don't have much to do with us. It's like being black. I'm gay but I also happen to be black. However my homosexuality has very little to do with the black community at large. I'm included because I'm black but if I were white and gay I would not be because our issues are different despite being minority groups.
  • buymeasoda

    Posts: 93

    Jan 13, 2015 10:10 PM GMT
    are we not stronger together? queer is a large umbrella and the more the better.

    I think the Op is defining what gay means to him and it looks like that is one opinion. BUT it is still not your place to say transsexuals are not gay and should be segregated. This is the same techniques that they use against us. Transsexuals face similar harassment and oppression we face.


    I would like to know if the OP has experienced hate. Real hate.

    if so i don't know if his tune would be the same..

    Labels.... come on real jock think inclusive always..... thought we were better then this...

    also thanks meninlove for understanding this side of the fence!
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    Jan 13, 2015 10:20 PM GMT
    buymeasoda saidare we not stronger together? queer is a large umbrella and the more the better.

    I think the Op is defining what gay means to him and it looks like that is one opinion. BUT it is still not your place to say transsexuals are not gay and should be segregated. This is the same techniques that they use against us. Transsexuals face similar harassment and oppression we face.


    I would like to know if the OP has experienced hate. Real hate.

    if so i don't know if his tune would be the same..

    Labels.... come on real jock think inclusive always..... thought we were better then this...

    also thanks meninlove for understanding this side of the fence!



    I'm starting wonder if it's a Canadian thing, buymeasoda. *winks warmly* Unlike some here, I not only know several transgenders, I also lived with one for a time in the late 70s and met a lot of her friends. Right now I feel bad for the ones on RJ that I know. They're not bugs on a tray, they're people.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 13, 2015 10:45 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    buymeasoda saidare we not stronger together? queer is a large umbrella and the more the better.

    I think the Op is defining what gay means to him and it looks like that is one opinion. BUT it is still not your place to say transsexuals are not gay and should be segregated. This is the same techniques that they use against us. Transsexuals face similar harassment and oppression we face.


    I would like to know if the OP has experienced hate. Real hate.

    if so i don't know if his tune would be the same..

    Labels.... come on real jock think inclusive always..... thought we were better then this...

    also thanks meninlove for understanding this side of the fence!



    I'm starting wonder if it's a Canadian thing, buymeasoda. *winks warmly* Unlike some here, I not only know several transgenders, I also lived with one for a time in the late 70s and met a lot of her friends. Right now I feel bad for the ones on RJ that I know. They're not bugs on a tray, they're people.

    We don't have no transgendered gays and lesbians in 'Murica! This is a Christian nation!icon_mad.gif
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    Jan 13, 2015 10:50 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidAfter reading this thread, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the G that gets dropped.icon_rolleyes.gif

    (of course then you'd have a BLT, which doubles as a tasty sandwich!) icon_lol.gif


    My fav. comment in this thread.

    Ever thought that many gays get bullied because of gender-expression, because they're deemed not masculine enough? An experience they have in common with Transgender people. And many Gays, Lesbians and Bisexuals live "straight" lives, just like many Transgenders. In far too many places in the US Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals and Transgender people still can get fired, thrown out of their apartments and disowned by their families just for being themselves, but you .... think we have nothing in common?


    ATTENTION: SARCASM
    All those in favor of dropping the Ts can meet in their special treehouse and put up a sign: No Transexuals allowed!

    Next we throw out the Fems, the Blacks, the Asians, the fats, the uglies and the old
    /sarcasm
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    Jan 14, 2015 12:10 AM GMT
    bhp91126 saidEver thought that many gays get bullied because of gender-expression, because they're deemed not masculine enough? An experience they have in common with Transgender people. And many Gays, Lesbians and Bisexuals live "straight" lives, just like many Transgenders. In far too many places in the US Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals and Transgender people still can get fired, thrown out of their apartments and disowned by their families just for being themselves, but you .... think we have nothing in common?


    This is what most people need to understand. Regardless of how the lived experience of being gay is different from being trans, the discrimination comes from the very same place: adhering to gender norms. That's what makes the struggle for gay and trans people very similar. Except it's much worse for most trans people.

    Furthermore, there's a really big contradiction happening from the few members that don't want trans people under the LGBT umbrella. To say that you support trans rights but also think that their rights are too complicated to understand when paired with ours is very narrow-minded. Isn't that the "not in MY backyard" argument?

    Rather than looking at LGBT rights as several different things that the whole world needs to adopt right away, consider that all these things take time to understand at a global or national level. Every civil rights movement needs all the support it can get. So if in the end we're supporting both ends, why does it matter if we separate from the T?
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    Jan 14, 2015 12:13 AM GMT
    Art_Deco saidI thought the trend was to add MORE letters. Aren't we up to 6 or something? I liked GLBT, still haven't figured out why we switched to LGBT.


    There's quite a few more letters actually with "Allies", "Asexual", "Pansexual", etc it can get a bit overwhelming when it comes to the LGBT alphabet soup of sorts. From working at the GLBT historical society GLBT was switched to LGBT due to politeness as ladies generally go first which I found interesting:-D.
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    Jan 14, 2015 12:16 AM GMT
    go_dreaming said
    bhp91126 saidEver thought that many gays get bullied because of gender-expression, because they're deemed not masculine enough? An experience they have in common with Transgender people. And many Gays, Lesbians and Bisexuals live "straight" lives, just like many Transgenders. In far too many places in the US Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals and Transgender people still can get fired, thrown out of their apartments and disowned by their families just for being themselves, but you .... think we have nothing in common?


    This is what most people need to understand. Regardless of how the lived experience of being gay is different from being trans, the discrimination comes from the very same place: adhering to gender norms. That's what makes the struggle for gay and trans people very similar. Except it's much worse for most trans people.

    Furthermore, there's a really big contradiction happening from the few members that don't want trans people under the LGBT umbrella. To say that you support trans rights but also think that their rights are too complicated to understand when paired with ours is very narrow-minded. Isn't that the "not in MY backyard" argument?

    Rather than looking at LGBT rights as several different things that the whole world needs to adopt right away, consider that all these things take time to understand at a global or national level. Every civil rights movement needs all the support it can get. So if in the end we're supporting both ends, why does it matter if we separate from the T?


    I just feel as if it doesn't really do them any justice to be aligned with us. I don't really think we need them to be honest anyway. If a trans person is gay or lesbian fine. But the fact of the matter is that many if not most trans people transition in a way that allows them to assimilate into heterosexual society. Most want to live their lives as straight people. They have that right and I will fight for it but I don't think it matches what we as a proper gay and lesbian community are fighting for which is the protection of same sex attraction and relationships.
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    Jan 14, 2015 12:23 AM GMT
    smiledie said
    Art_Deco saidI thought the trend was to add MORE letters. Aren't we up to 6 or something? I liked GLBT, still haven't figured out why we switched to LGBT.


    There's quite a few more letters actually with "Allies", "Asexual", "Pansexual", etc it can get a bit overwhelming when it comes to the LGBT alphabet soup of sorts. From working at the GLBT historical society GLBT was switched to LGBT due to politeness as ladies generally go first which I found interesting:-D.


    So why do they put the Lesbians first? icon_cool.gif
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    Jan 14, 2015 12:25 AM GMT
    Radd said
    smiledie said
    Art_Deco saidI thought the trend was to add MORE letters. Aren't we up to 6 or something? I liked GLBT, still haven't figured out why we switched to LGBT.


    There's quite a few more letters actually with "Allies", "Asexual", "Pansexual", etc it can get a bit overwhelming when it comes to the LGBT alphabet soup of sorts. From working at the GLBT historical society GLBT was switched to LGBT due to politeness as ladies generally go first which I found interesting:-D.


    So why do they put the Lesbians first? icon_cool.gif



    giphy.gif
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    Jan 14, 2015 1:37 AM GMT
    Inque said
    I just feel as if it doesn't really do them any justice to be aligned with us. I don't really think we need them to be honest anyway. If a trans person is gay or lesbian fine. But the fact of the matter is that many if not most trans people transition in a way that allows them to assimilate into heterosexual society. Most want to live their lives as straight people. They have that right and I will fight for it but I don't think it matches what we as a proper gay and lesbian community are fighting for which is the protection of same sex attraction and relationships.

    You only have a very limited understanding of what the LGBT movement is after, and even less of what Transpeople want. In a nutshell it's equal rights and ending discrimination for ALL of us, so EVERYONE under the umbrella LGBT+ can live their lives as they want to live them. It's not up to you to decide what is a worthwhile goal and what is not.
  • Noeton

    Posts: 209

    Jan 14, 2015 2:00 AM GMT
    I think there is a big difference between rights for gay people and transgendered people. Gay people are born gay and don't need to take hormones or make any biological changes to be gay. Other than true hermaphrodites (people born with the genitalia of both sexes) which is extremely rare, transgender is a result of "nurture" not "nature". It's a process of trying to change biological reality to conform to an idea which is a product of cultural values in a society (albeit the cultural values a small fragment of society). I definitely agree with equal civil rights for everyone. However I think that transgender people -- except hermaphrodites -- should actually be considered mentally ill in the sense that they want to inflict serious harm upon their bodies. It's really what rights they should have to mental health care that I think should be the issue. It's really awful when transgendered people are discriminated against in any way, but if their condition were consistently treated as a mental illness, then that would prevent at least some of that discrimination.