POTUS, OBAMA, Throws Christianity under the Bus!

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 1:58 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Physiqueflex said
    musclmed said
    Physiqueflex saidIt seems to me that the point was that we don't condemn all Christians for the actions of the distant past, or recent past for that matter, by extremists such as the Klan, anti-abortion bombers, etc. acting "in the name of God/Christ" or whatever. Most Christians today are fine upstanding people, with some exceptions.

    We should remember this and not associate all Muslims with the violence perpetrated by extremists in their ranks.


    Yes and we have heard this point from Professor Obama over and over again.

    The issue is that we have heard this over and over from him. It does not address the fact that ISIL is gaining strength. And we have /had hostages that these very words from POTUS can be used as propaganda and justification to harm them.

    Its another course in his lecture series.


    No, it does not address that issue, directly. There is another fact that the number of ISIL's enemies are growing and gaining strength too, and that is the issue the president is directly addressing here, IMO. If we're fighting amongst ourselves about which religion is the most violent (answer: none), then we are not as strong against ISIL as we can be, or need to be.

    That is why I appreciate the subtle change in language. The president used the word "terror" only three times in this speech. I think we have to stop referring to the threat as "terrorism", and keep calling it something more accurate, like "violent religious extremism".

    Also, giving lectures is part of what a president does.

    If we really want to be accurate, why don't we name the specific religion this extremism is coming from rather than "violent religious extremism"?


    Good point, but a better one is why bring religion into the discussion at all? Do we care what religious affiliation murderers have? Did we care about the religions of John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, Surhan Surhan, James Earl Ray, etc. etc?

    To be more accurate still, ISIL is a street gang. A little more well financed than your average street gang, but a gang nonetheless. They are not a "state". They are not an "army". They aren't "religious", they've bastardized religion. They don't take "prisoners", they kidnap people. They don't "execute" hostages, they murder them. It's not "terrorism", it's violence and murder.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 1:59 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    If we really want to be accurate, why don't we name the specific religion this extremism is coming from rather than "violent religious extremism"?

    Okay, Christian Dominionism. There, I said it. Happy?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 2:21 AM GMT
    If Obama was more like a Bush, and went up against ISIL with both guns blazing, sending troops to Syria, etc. would we have seen the same response from Jordan when their guy was killed? I don't think so, and this is exactly the type of response we need from all Islamic nations. No American president could get some 99% of all Jordanians, or any other nation for that matter, to support this effort. Taking a supporting role instead of the lead is a better approach, IMO, because we've never tried it before and taking the lead is, again IMO, why we're where we are right now.

    What's that expression about "insanity" that people like to (falsely) attribute to Einstein?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 2:24 AM GMT
    Physiqueflex saidGood point, but a better one is why bring religion into the discussion at all? Do we care what religious affiliation murderers have? Did we care about the religions of John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, Surhan Surhan, James Earl Ray, etc. etc?

    To be more accurate still, ISIL is a street gang. A little more well financed than your average street gang, but a gang nonetheless. They are not a "state". They are not an "army". They aren't "religious", they've bastardized religion. They don't take "prisoners", they kidnap people. They don't "execute" hostages, they murder them. It's not "terrorism", it's violence and murder.

    I think religion is crucial because they use some of the Islamic institutions to recruit. If they are to be stopped, their means of recruitment must be identified.

    I maintain they are religious. They are following the violent passages of the Quran and state they are acting in the name of Allah. They are also supported by some of the extremist Imams. I think the most accurate description is they are extremist Islamic fundamentalists.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 2:42 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Physiqueflex saidGood point, but a better one is why bring religion into the discussion at all? Do we care what religious affiliation murderers have? Did we care about the religions of John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, Surhan Surhan, James Earl Ray, etc. etc?

    To be more accurate still, ISIL is a street gang. A little more well financed than your average street gang, but a gang nonetheless. They are not a "state". They are not an "army". They aren't "religious", they've bastardized religion. They don't take "prisoners", they kidnap people. They don't "execute" hostages, they murder them. It's not "terrorism", it's violence and murder.

    I think religion is crucial because they use some of the Islamic institutions to recruit. If they are to be stopped, their means of recruitment must be identified.

    I maintain they are religious. They are following the violent passages of the Quran and state they are acting in the name of Allah. They are also supported by some of the extremist Imams. I think the most accurate description is they are extremist Islamic fundamentalists.


    I can't speak to the fundamentalist part, but you're right. I just don't think this is the right language. Calling them fundamentalists leaves room for doubt. Someone who is already a believer might be more easily swayed to believe the extremist rhetoric. Criminal violent murderer leaves no doubt that these are unrighteous people.

    It's hard for us to take this position because of our history, and I think it's time for us to take the high road lest we be seen as being on a high horse.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 4:05 AM GMT
    Physiqueflex said
    StephenOABC saidObama said, "Unless we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ."


    This is not what he said.


    I typed it directly from the NEWSY report.

    http://www.theindychannel.com/newsy/obama-compares-isis-to-the-crusades-receives-heavy-backlash
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 4:11 AM GMT
    Physiqueflex said
    StephenOABC saidObama said, "Unless we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ."


    This is not what he said.

    " And lest we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ.


    lest
    lest/
    conjunction
    formal
    conjunction: lest

    with the intention of preventing (something undesirable); to avoid the risk of.
    "he spent whole days in his room, headphones on lest he disturb anyone"
    (after a clause indicating fear) because of the possibility of something undesirable happening; in case.
    "she sat up late worrying lest he be held up on the way home"

    = = =

    So you're saying Obama used two conjunctions in a row.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 4:14 AM GMT
    Actually, I didn't hear it as I wrote it.

    Although I wrote unless we get on our high horse. I heard it as the president saying do not get on our high horse not because our bombs are creating all sorts of injuries but because 500 years ago..., 800 years ago...

    Alright, I'll give you that, I'll go back and change un less which really was and lest [sic] to simply Lest.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 4:17 AM GMT
    operating alongside those who seek to hijack religious for their own

    = = =

    Did he really say hijack religious or hijack religion?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 4:19 AM GMT
    StephenOABC saidActually, I didn't hear it as I wrote it.

    Although I wrote unless we get on our high horse. I heard it as the president saying do not get on our high horse not because our bombs are creating all sorts of injuries but because 500 years ago..., 800 years ago...

    Alright, I'll give you that, I'll go back and change un less which really was and lest [sic] to simply Lest.


    Well, read the section of the transcript I posted, or better yet, listen to the speech. There is a link to the youtube video in the link you posted.

    The misquote aside, looking at the whole thing in context tells a different story than what your sources are telling you. I wonder why it is they would do that, and why you would continue using them as a source, if indeed you would.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 4:20 AM GMT
    StephenOABC saidoperating alongside those who seek to hijack religious for their own

    = = =

    Did he really say hijack religious or hijack religion?


    Yes, that is what the transcript says.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 4:36 AM GMT
    Physiqueflex

    looking at the whole thing in context tells a different story than what your sources are telling you.

    stephenoabc

    It's good to look at the whole in addition to sentences, but the sentences are there.

    Second, Islamic State on more than one occasion has prefaced executions with the harm that is done by bombs. What does this speech do? It denies a hearing, listening, diplomacy.

    As I've heard the story goes: Islamic State developed due to a vacuum in strong government in Syria and Iraq. Now, if the US and US coalition decided to be "hands off, no nation building," this is what we get and we do not get to bomb what grew organically when we said we will let power grow organically.


  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 12:12 PM GMT
    The crusades lasted 450 years! Does anyone know how long ago that was? There was also on average 4 to 5 deaths per year. 911 killed more in a day. I used say Obama was a smart man, just not nearly enough experience for the job. Now we all know he's not that bright.icon_idea.gif OK a little brighter than a small appliance bulb.icon_neutral.gif

    When Christie takes office our prisoners will be released!

    Our hostage gets beheaded, Obama takes of on his pre planned golf trip? And he sucks in golf. I shoot a better game.
    Jordan's hostage killed, burnt alive...they take immediate military actions. They would never do a 5 for 1 for a deserter to help bolster their leaders public opinion!!!!!
    He has weakened our great country all around. Keep drinking the kool aid bleeding heart liberal dumbshits.icon_idea.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 2:32 PM GMT
    HottJoe said^ Of course I'm not holy.


    Secular interpretation of the word holy:
    having an excellent, serene, blissful quality
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 2:41 PM GMT
    You just became concerned at mixing politics and religion when Obama said something historically accurate.....at the National Prayer Breakfast.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 22459

    Feb 07, 2015 3:14 PM GMT
    HottJoe said^ Of course I'm not holy. I'm not big foot, either. These things don't exist. You're just caught up in propaganda.
    and you are a brain dead idiot who needs to lay off the whacky tobacky otherwise known as marijuana for the rest of your miserable, beshitted life. You are the dumbest of trolls on here.icon_wink.gif
  • peterstrong

    Posts: 990

    Feb 07, 2015 3:20 PM GMT

    Christianity has been used and still is being used to terrorize gay teenagers in this country, who have ended up killing themselves.

    Christianity is still being used to terrorize gay people in Africa and Russia at this present moment...

    Hello ?

    Blame the haters, not the religion - Mike Fuckabee wants to run for prez of USA currently on an antigay platform, which eggs on his very christian brethren in Uganda who want to execute gay people icon_twisted.gif

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/21/mike-huckabee-gay-marriage-supreme-court_n_6512042.html



  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 3:56 PM GMT
    How dare Obama bring up history and facts to make a point. GAAAAHHH. So unfair.

  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 07, 2015 4:05 PM GMT
    StephenOABC said
    HottJoe said^ Of course I'm not holy.


    Secular interpretation of the word holy:
    having an excellent, serene, blissful quality

    Oh, I guess I am holy then.icon_smile.gif
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 22459

    Feb 07, 2015 4:07 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    StephenOABC said
    HottJoe said^ Of course I'm not holy.


    Secular interpretation of the word holy:
    having an excellent, serene, blissful quality

    Oh, I guess I am holy then.icon_smile.gif
    no, you are just an idiot.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 07, 2015 4:08 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    HottJoe said^ Of course I'm not holy. I'm not big foot, either. These things don't exist. You're just caught up in propaganda.
    and you are a brain dead idiot who needs to lay off the whacky tobacky otherwise known as marijuana for the rest of your miserable, beshitted life. You are the dumbest of trolls on here.icon_wink.gif

    Beshitted???icon_eek.gif

    Honestly, I have the happiest life. I just don't believe in religion. I've always thought of religious people as unenlightened and dangerous.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 4:24 PM GMT
    I can't with this thread. He did not throw Christianity under the bus, he just reminded everyone that religion can be distorted to anyone's selfish and depraved ideology...

    You have some growing up to do if you get offended by someone saying your religion isn't perfect.

    I am not a Christian, but I know the Bible very well. If you are familiar with the New Testament, you would know that Peter warns the Church of those who "distort the Truth" of the Gospel. President Obama is doing just that! He is telling people that there are those who have and will distort religion to fit their own desires! What are you even bitching about! There are verses about this in I and II Peter, I and II Timothy, Acts, Hebrews.... the list goes on.

    Maybe you should actually read your Bible, OP.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 07, 2015 4:25 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    HottJoe said
    StephenOABC said
    HottJoe said^ Of course I'm not holy.


    Secular interpretation of the word holy:
    having an excellent, serene, blissful quality

    Oh, I guess I am holy then.icon_smile.gif
    no, you are just an idiot.

    How serene of you?icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 5:07 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said
    StephenOABC saidThe Muslims did not create in atrocities during the Crusades?


    Actually, the Christians were often more ruthless than the Muslims during the Crusades. I seem to recall that, during the various occupations of Jerusalem, the Crusaders slaughtered the entire Muslim population, whereas the Muslims gave the Christians safe passage out of the City.

    Ultimately though I think all religion has been pretty pernicious down the centuries, which is probably what President Obama meant.


    Even assuming that everything you say about the crusading Xtians is true,

    1. They were there because the Muslims had conquered and subjected Jerusalem and the Holy Lands; and

    2. That was then, this is now.

    As for what Obama meant, he doesn't even know himself what he's saying half the time, and the other half of the time "he knows not whereof he speaks."
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 07, 2015 5:07 PM GMT
    mista_me

    He did not throw Christianity under the bus, he just reminded everyone that religion can be distorted to anyone's selfish and depraved ideology...

    Stephenoabc

    Islamic State is doing what it is doing BECAUSE of the airstrikes, NOT because of the Inquisitions or the Crusades.

    Obama: You have a right to be indignant about setting people on fire? Weren't people burned at the stake during the Inquisitions?

    Mista_me, if that's not pulling an UNRELATED cause and throwing it under a bus when what should be thrown under the bus is the bombing which Islamic State has always said was the cause, then you DO not know the issues.