POTUS, OBAMA, Throws Christianity under the Bus!

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    Feb 07, 2015 5:09 PM GMT
    Physiqueflex saidIt seems to me that the point was that we don't condemn all Christians for the actions of the distant past, or recent past for that matter, by extremists such as the Klan, anti-abortion bombers, etc. acting "in the name of God/Christ" or whatever. Most Christians today are fine upstanding people, with some exceptions.

    We should remember this and not associate all Muslims with the violence perpetrated by extremists in their ranks.


    Then, let's see all those denunciations by Muslims of their co-religionists' barbaric acts. Good luck on the hunt, and it'll take more than a Wiki or google search to come up w/ much.
  • waccamatt

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    Feb 07, 2015 5:11 PM GMT
    Obama was correct; every religion has its ridiculous extremists and it isn't isolated to Islam. The KKK claims to be a Christian organization, btw.
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    Feb 07, 2015 5:12 PM GMT
    brolyn saidHow dare Obama bring up history and facts to make a point. GAAAAHHH. So unfair.


    In this thread is a chronology of events leading up to the Crusades. Deal with that before blaming the Crusaders.
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    Feb 07, 2015 5:23 PM GMT
    Physiqueflex said
    musclmed said
    Physiqueflex saidIt seems to me that the point was that we don't condemn all Christians for the actions of the distant past, or recent past for that matter, by extremists such as the Klan, anti-abortion bombers, etc. acting "in the name of God/Christ" or whatever. Most Christians today are fine upstanding people, with some exceptions.

    We should remember this and not associate all Muslims with the violence perpetrated by extremists in their ranks.


    Yes and we have heard this point from Professor Obama over and over again.

    The issue is that we have heard this over and over from him. It does not address the fact that ISIL is gaining strength. And we have /had hostages that these very words from POTUS can be used as propaganda and justification to harm them.

    Its another course in his lecture series.


    No, it does not address that issue, directly. There is another fact that the number of ISIL's enemies are growing and gaining strength too, and that is the issue the president is directly addressing here, IMO. If we're fighting amongst ourselves about which religion is the most violent (answer: none), then we are not as strong against ISIL as we can be, or need to be.

    That is why I appreciate the subtle change in language. The president used the word "terror" only three times in this speech. I think we have to stop referring to the threat as "terrorism", and keep calling it something more accurate, like "violent religious extremism".

    Also, giving lectures is part of what a president does.


    No, giving lectures on constitutional law at UChicago's law school as an adjunct lecturer was what Obama did, until he quickly tired of it and "moved on," as is said. Precious few prior presidents proved as pedantic as Obama is. And speaking of euphemisms, I recommend you read George Orwell's excellent essay "Politics and the English Language" for the dangers inherent in the dumbing down of strong, direct words in favor of the contrived, mindless euphemisms that Obama indulges in and you embrace. Me, I'll keep telling it like it is, and call a spade a spade.
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    Feb 07, 2015 5:25 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Physiqueflex said
    musclmed said
    Physiqueflex saidIt seems to me that the point was that we don't condemn all Christians for the actions of the distant past, or recent past for that matter, by extremists such as the Klan, anti-abortion bombers, etc. acting "in the name of God/Christ" or whatever. Most Christians today are fine upstanding people, with some exceptions.

    We should remember this and not associate all Muslims with the violence perpetrated by extremists in their ranks.


    Yes and we have heard this point from Professor Obama over and over again.

    The issue is that we have heard this over and over from him. It does not address the fact that ISIL is gaining strength. And we have /had hostages that these very words from POTUS can be used as propaganda and justification to harm them.

    Its another course in his lecture series.


    No, it does not address that issue, directly. There is another fact that the number of ISIL's enemies are growing and gaining strength too, and that is the issue the president is directly addressing here, IMO. If we're fighting amongst ourselves about which religion is the most violent (answer: none), then we are not as strong against ISIL as we can be, or need to be.

    That is why I appreciate the subtle change in language. The president used the word "terror" only three times in this speech. I think we have to stop referring to the threat as "terrorism", and keep calling it something more accurate, like "violent religious extremism".

    Also, giving lectures is part of what a president does.

    If we really want to be accurate, why don't we name the specific religion this extremism is coming from rather than "violent religious extremism"?


    Apparently, that's too accurate for some.
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    Feb 07, 2015 5:25 PM GMT
    mista_me

    You have some growing up to do if you get offended by someone saying your religion isn't perfect.

    stephenoabc

    #1 Ralph Nader had a better platform than Obama when Obama was elected the first time.

    #2 Hillary Clinton was a better choice for president than Obama. She had more experience.

    #3

    Obama's father was raised in a Muslim family. When he was about six years old and attending a Christian missionary school, the boy converted to Anglicanism when strongly encouraged by the staff. He changed his name from "Baraka" to "Barack".

    See Wikipedia's entry for Barack Obama, Sr.

    #4 I write about the historical accuracy of sacred scripture. I know about the imperfections of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.


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    Feb 07, 2015 5:32 PM GMT
    Physiqueflex said
    socalfitness said
    Physiqueflex said
    musclmed said
    Physiqueflex said

    Good point, but a better one is why bring religion into the discussion at all? Do we care what religious affiliation murderers have? Did we care about the religions of John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, Surhan Surhan, James Earl Ray, etc. etc?

    To be more accurate still, ISIL is a street gang. A little more well financed than your average street gang, but a gang nonetheless. They are not a "state". They are not an "army". They aren't "religious", they've bastardized religion. They don't take "prisoners", they kidnap people. They don't "execute" hostages, they murder them. It's not "terrorism", it's violence and murder.


    The left sure likes to note that Timothy McVeigh was a Xtian; I don't know how Sirhan Sirhan made it onto your list. And, the claim that ISIS is only a "street gang" is absurd, even when not compared to the depredations of the Bloods, Crips, Nortenos, Nazi Lo-Riders, and others. Sorry, you're both mischaracterizing and misnaming these terrorists, and that does nothing to help eliminate them.
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    Feb 07, 2015 5:33 PM GMT
    StephenOABC saidObama Compares Atrocities of ISIS to CHRISTIAN Atrocities During the Crusades and the Inquisition

    Isn't that mixing religion and politics?

    He did this at the National Prayer Breakfast, yesterday morning, Thur., 2/5/2015.


    Because it's all equally ridiculous. There's absolutely nothing wrong with pointing out the insanity of people who would kill other people because a book someone wrote thousands of years ago says it's alright. It's just as insane in the Muslim religion as it is in the Christian religion, Christians don't get a free pass just because they successfully wiped out their opposition in the Gnostics.

    This is just so infuriatingly irrational I can't help but think the majority of humans are completely mentally compromised.
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    Feb 07, 2015 5:34 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Physiqueflex saidGood point, but a better one is why bring religion into the discussion at all? Do we care what religious affiliation murderers have? Did we care about the religions of John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, Surhan Surhan, James Earl Ray, etc. etc?

    To be more accurate still, ISIL is a street gang. A little more well financed than your average street gang, but a gang nonetheless. They are not a "state". They are not an "army". They aren't "religious", they've bastardized religion. They don't take "prisoners", they kidnap people. They don't "execute" hostages, they murder them. It's not "terrorism", it's violence and murder.

    I think religion is crucial because they use some of the Islamic institutions to recruit. If they are to be stopped, their means of recruitment must be identified.

    I maintain they are religious. They are following the violent passages of the Quran and state they are acting in the name of Allah. They are also supported by some of the extremist Imams. I think the most accurate description is they are extremist Islamic fundamentalists.


    Well said, and right you are. The entire infrastructure is based on Islam, "hijacked" or not. That it has proved to be - and remain - such a receptive host for so long speaks volumes.
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    Feb 07, 2015 5:35 PM GMT
    mista_me saidPeter warns the Church of those who "distort the Truth" of the Gospel. President Obama is doing just that! He is telling people that there are those who have and will distort religion to fit their own desires!


    There is no distorting going on at all. There are verses in the Hebrew Bible and in the Koran that instruct when to use violence. Even in the New Testament, Jesus speaks of violence.

    "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

    Elsewhere, he uses one of his parables to let us know what he thinks of those who do not want him to reign as Messiah-Son of Man.

    "Bring them and slay them before me."

    Here's the NIV:

    "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me."
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    Feb 07, 2015 5:35 PM GMT
    StephenOABC said
    Mista_me, if that's not pulling an UNRELATED cause and throwing it under a bus when what should be thrown under the bus is the bombing which Islamic State has always said was the cause, then you DO not know the issues.


    I'm not really sure what you're getting at with this comment or your others. There are some very ambiguous pronouns here and I can't tell when you're responding with quotes from an article, wikipedia or your own head throughout this thread.

    President Obama, just like his Christian predecessor Bush, is merely pointing out that the vast majority of Muslims on earth are not terrorists, just like the vast majority of Christians on earth are not the Westboro Baptist Church.

    Hitler described his movement as "Christian" in speeches and used the religion to justify his own violence and bigotry, if you want a more modern distortion of the Christian faith.
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    Feb 07, 2015 5:44 PM GMT
    Physiqueflex said
    socalfitness said
    Physiqueflex saidGood point, but a better one is why bring religion into the discussion at all? Do we care what religious affiliation murderers have? Did we care about the religions of John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, Surhan Surhan, James Earl Ray, etc. etc?

    To be more accurate still, ISIL is a street gang. A little more well financed than your average street gang, but a gang nonetheless. They are not a "state". They are not an "army". They aren't "religious", they've bastardized religion. They don't take "prisoners", they kidnap people. They don't "execute" hostages, they murder them. It's not "terrorism", it's violence and murder.

    I think religion is crucial because they use some of the Islamic institutions to recruit. If they are to be stopped, their means of recruitment must be identified.

    I maintain they are religious. They are following the violent passages of the Quran and state they are acting in the name of Allah. They are also supported by some of the extremist Imams. I think the most accurate description is they are extremist Islamic fundamentalists.


    I can't speak to the fundamentalist part, but you're right. I just don't think this is the right language. Calling them fundamentalists leaves room for doubt. Someone who is already a believer might be more easily swayed to believe the extremist rhetoric. Criminal violent murderer leaves no doubt that these are unrighteous people.

    It's hard for us to take this position because of our history, and I think it's time for us to take the high road lest we be seen as being on a high horse.


    I understand your point about taking the high road, but when dealing w/ people who understand only force, the high road leads only to a quagmire. Others who've trod that path - Woodrow - "too proud to fight" - Wilson, Neville - no quote needed - Chamberlain, and others who followed their tentative tread - were all proven wrong, but only after millions had already died following their bad advice. The ONLY place where I've seen the high road as the better road is in the practice of law in the courts of the US and other English common law countries, and even there it is sometimes necessary to deal w/ malefactors harshly. However, to paraphrase the exchange between Soviet UN ambassador Zorin and US UN ambassador Adlai Stevenson, we are not in an American courtroom or in the court of world opinion, but fighting in the streets and deserts for preservation of Western culture.
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    Feb 07, 2015 5:46 PM GMT
    brolyn saidHow dare Obama bring up history and facts to make a point. GAAAAHHH. So unfair.


    Nothing wrong with that, provided they're accurate, timely and relevant. As usual, though, Obama strikes out on all three - and takes a walk on logic.
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    Feb 07, 2015 5:48 PM GMT
    Animus said
    StephenOABC saidObama Compares Atrocities of ISIS to CHRISTIAN Atrocities During the Crusades and the Inquisition

    Isn't that mixing religion and politics?

    He did this at the National Prayer Breakfast, yesterday morning, Thur., 2/5/2015.


    Because it's all equally ridiculous. There's absolutely nothing wrong with pointing out the insanity of people who would kill other people because a book someone wrote thousands of years ago says it's alright. It's just as insane in the Muslim religion as it is in the Christian religion, Christians don't get a free pass just because they successfully wiped out their opposition in the Gnostics.

    This is just so infuriatingly irrational I can't help but think the majority of humans are completely mentally compromised.


    The Islamic State is executing people more for their political power and as punishment for their civilians killed and maimed by bombs than for their religion.

    Obama's Position: "I'm not hearing or addressing what Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has over and over explained as the real reason for his executions. I'll let that stand by the bus but will throw Christianity under the bus. My grandfather was a Muslim."
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    Feb 07, 2015 5:55 PM GMT
    The U.S. is not a theocracy.
    Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi's government seems to be an Islamic theocracy.
    We can get on a high horse and speak against the failings of theocracy just as Islamists can be critical of Western secularists.

    Obama crossed the line with his friendly fire against U.S. Christians.
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    Feb 07, 2015 6:08 PM GMT
    He is the U.S. president and KNOWS our non-theocratic Constitution which grants him powers had nothing whatsoever to do with the Crusades or the Inquisitions--Salem witch burnings, KKK (and somewhere I saw that 4 presidents were members of the KKK), and Jim Crow are another story, each on their own.

    Nevertheless, as stated by another poster in this thread, Obama's reference to time is off.

    The Church's powers over kings during the time of the Crusades constitute a theocracy in my book. The Church's own power to conduct Spanish or Roman Inquisitions, even as far away as India (Yes, there were Inquisitions in India) constitute a theocratic power. These two are on par with an Islamic State as theocratic state.

    So, who is at risk being on a high horse? Those Christians living today (in the U.S. or in France or in Germany) reacting against the manner in which the Jordanian pilot and others were executed. Christians living TODAY are NOT citizens of Christian theocratic tyranny.

    So, Obama wrongfully misapplied history when bringing up the Crusades and the Inquisitions. Now, if he were to bring up the Crusades and Inquisitions Christians have against bisexuals and homosexuals, that would be relevant.
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    Feb 07, 2015 6:09 PM GMT
    It was a cheap shot to try to bring Christianity down a peg.
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    Feb 07, 2015 6:10 PM GMT
    HottJoe said

    ...The more devoted people are to religion, the more deeply ignorant and toxic they become towards people outside of their faith.


    What a ridiculous statement. How do you explain people like Mother Teresa who cared for the poor and dying in India regardless of whether they were Christian, Hindu, or Muslim. The Christian faith is full of people like her. I suggest you do a bit of research before making such stupid generalities.

    Yes, all religions have their share of zealots as do political ideologies and even atheism of which you surely must be their most ignorant and zealous. But for every ignorant and toxic religious person I can show you a religious person who isn't.
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    Feb 07, 2015 6:15 PM GMT
    all religions have committed some form of atrocity. he isn't throwing Christians under the bus he is trying to make them remember that their ancestors are not free from blame either. Perspective is important. Also there are numerous atrocities occurring at the hands of Christians all the time, they are just largely ignored.
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    Feb 07, 2015 6:25 PM GMT
    JoshAlexander saidall religions have committed some form of atrocity. he isn't throwing Christians under the bus he is trying to make them remember that their ancestors are not free from blame either. Perspective is important. Also there are numerous atrocities occurring at the hands of Christians all the time, they are just largely ignored.


    Ancestors =/= modern terrorists. And, tell us about some of those "numerous atrocities" Xtians commit "all the time." Just make sure they're apposite in terms of scope and degree.
  • roadbikeRob

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    Feb 07, 2015 6:27 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan said
    HottJoe said

    ...The more devoted people are to religion, the more deeply ignorant and toxic they become towards people outside of their faith.


    What a ridiculous statement. How do you explain people like Mother Teresa who cared for the poor and dying in India regardless of whether they were Christian, Hindu, or Muslim. The Christian faith is full of people like her. I suggest you do a bit of research before making such stupid generalities.

    Yes, all religions have their share of zealots as do political ideologies and even atheism of which you surely must be their most ignorant and zealous. But for every ignorant and toxic religious person I can show you a religious person who isn't.
    What do you expect from MinneapolisMotorMouthicon_question.gif That man has zero crebibility yet he keeps on making a total fool of himself by posting all his ultraliberal, atheistic hyperbole on here. Joe is a cancer and a blight to realjock and that is no bullshit.
  • Buddha

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    Feb 07, 2015 6:30 PM GMT
    StephenOABC saidtumblr_mifnoheacv1s5tlmxo1_400.gif


    Stop trying to make the differentiation the abrahmic religions happen, it's not gonna happen.

    I had the same discussion with a friend the other day, who was convinced that christianity is innately more good than islam. Looking at the evil all abrahamic religions do, I'm not sure how anyone could ever believe that they are so different.

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    Feb 07, 2015 6:32 PM GMT
    MGINSD said
    JoshAlexander saidall religions have committed some form of atrocity. he isn't throwing Christians under the bus he is trying to make them remember that their ancestors are not free from blame either. Perspective is important. Also there are numerous atrocities occurring at the hands of Christians all the time, they are just largely ignored.


    Ancestors =/= modern terrorists. And, tell us about some of those "numerous atrocities" Xtians commit "all the time." Just make sure they're apposite in terms of scope and degree.

    Agree. While it's fair to point out that since the beginning of time different religions have engaged in violence, the context of his remarks is important. Coupled with his "high horse" BS, his intent was clearly to do what he and his followers always do. That is, try to find moral equivalency to every bad deed. In doing so, he gave the Islamist terrorists a good propaganda talking point.
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    Feb 07, 2015 6:33 PM GMT
    MikemikeMike said The crusades lasted 450 years! Does anyone know how long ago that was? There was also on average 4 to 5 deaths per year. 911 killed more in a day. I used say Obama was a smart man, just not nearly enough experience for the job. Now we all know he's not that bright.icon_idea.gif OK a little brighter than a small appliance bulb.icon_neutral.gif

    When Christie takes office our prisoners will be released!

    Our hostage gets beheaded, Obama takes of on his pre planned golf trip? And he sucks in golf. I shoot a better game.
    Jordan's hostage killed, burnt alive...they take immediate military actions. They would never do a 5 for 1 for a deserter to help bolster their leaders public opinion!!!!!
    He has weakened our great country all around. Keep drinking the kool aid bleeding heart liberal dumbshits.icon_idea.gif

    Absolutely correct!
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    Feb 07, 2015 6:45 PM GMT
    "POTUS, OBAMA, Throws Christianity under the Bus!"

    so where christianity belongs