POTUS, OBAMA, Throws Christianity under the Bus!

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    Feb 08, 2015 4:35 PM GMT
    Rowing_Ant saidAnd with Christianity it's not just the Crusades and Inquisition either.

    Just look at Christians burning one another during the Reformation and Counter Reformation.



    Oh, come on, you're not going to let us have that one? The Reformation venting was definitely needed.
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    Feb 08, 2015 4:41 PM GMT
    Rowing_Ant saidAnd with Christianity it's not just the Crusades and Inquisition either.

    Just look at Christians burning one another during the Reformation and Counter Reformation.

    Terorrism in Northern Ireland - sectarian violence - Christians shooting and blowing up each other and none Christians in a bitter legacy from 1916 (and earlier).

    All the anti-Gay laws didn't just appear from no-where you know....they're based on the bible.

    Christians going off to the "New World" and totally eradicating indigenous belief systems (e.g. Mezo America) or in Australasia.....

    Oh no. NO religion has "clean hands". (well, maybe other than Quakers). And for the President so remind us that extremism and violence exists in all religions is a good thing. As we've seen some Christianistts have got their knickers in a twist over this but sometimes the truth hurts. And I say so as a Christian (albeit very liberal Unitarian).


    You are so wrong.

    The President need not get on a high horse and lecture us--the politician lecturing the religious?

    Alright:

    Gulf of Tonkin Incident which contributed to Vietnam.

    9/11 Truth Movement which contributed to Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Doing whatever was needed so Bush and Cheney could get away with torturing people, some of whom were innocent.

  • metta

    Posts: 54330

    Feb 08, 2015 6:32 PM GMT
    10941914_10155253273075393_5931877815863





    President Obama: 'People Committed Terrible Deeds In The Name Of Christ'

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/05/obama-crusades-christ-_n_6623962.html


    Obama, slavery, Jim Crow, and Christianity

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/02/06/obama-slavery-jim-crow-and-christianity/


    Text of the actual speech:
    Remarks by the President at National Prayer Breakfast
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/02/05/remarks-president-national-prayer-breakfast
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    Feb 08, 2015 7:54 PM GMT
    Dr. Ben Carson dissects the Obama prayer breakfast speech and clearly describes what Obama is all about

    http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/02/08/dr-ben-carson-dissects-obamas-prayer-breakfast-speech-were-being-betrayed-178436

    Another read from Maureen Scott also gives excellent context to Obama.

    http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/scott/130301
    "Obama appears to be a tormented man who is filled with resentment, anger, and disdain for anyone of an opinion or view other than his. He acts in the most hateful, spiteful, malevolent, vindictive ways in order to manipulate and maintain power and control over others. Perhaps because, as a child, he grew up around family members and mentors who instilled him with an abiding bitterness toward the U.S. That bitterness seems not to have left him. ..." more on link
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3591

    Feb 08, 2015 8:19 PM GMT
    pouncer saidStephen, are you denying that the Roman Empire ruled all its conquered populations, including Arabs in the Middle East, with an iron fist?
    I am not accusing you of not mentioning the Byzantines, but of misrepresenting them as innocent victims of Islamic conquest. They were a theocratic Christian empire, that succumbed to former colonial subjects who in turn created their own empire. In places such as Spain the divide between Islamic domains and Christian domains often marked the border between civilization and barbarism.

    Al-Hakim of course is a figure of Islamic history. My point is that not only was he massively unorthodox even by the standards of his time (belonging to an offshoot of an offshoot of mainstream Islamic thought) but in fact was an utter pagan, hated by Muslims, who worshipped himself as God. This can hardly be said of Pope Urban II or Richard the Lionhearted...


    Known for his revisionism .....

    The roman empire did not occupy any significant part of "Arabia"

    Arabia /Saudi Arabia was known to be a vast desert and a wasteland. Unlike Egypt that had the resources of the Nile. The place that occupies Saudi Arabia only has /had oil. That only has value in modern times.

    Anyone who wants some modern insight into this issue, talk to a Armenian or a Greek about Islamic Caliphates.
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    Feb 08, 2015 8:36 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidDr. Ben Carson dissects the Obama prayer breakfast speech and clearly describes what Obama is all about

    http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/02/08/dr-ben-carson-dissects-obamas-prayer-breakfast-speech-were-being-betrayed-178436


    How Tucker can come to the conclusion that Obama was saying that Christians shouldn't criticize ISIS because of the Crusades shows he's either a lackey, or an idiot. I don't think he's an idiot. At least Carson didn't respond to that false interpretation.
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    Feb 08, 2015 9:29 PM GMT
    I'm pissed that ANY U.S. President is involved with anything called a "prayer breakfast."

    Why not a national "astrology brunch?" Maybe a national "tarot dinner." A "seance supper?"

    Fuck, it's 2015. How long before our civilization outgrows ALL of these bronze-age myths?

    But, oh, boo hoo. Obama didn't lick Christianity's taint. For fuck's sake, Christians, grow a pair. Want to be compared to Islam, who's more outraged by cartoons than murdered children? Act like the "mature" religion in the room, just once, and learn to hear criticism.

    Fuck anyone offended on behalf of their god. If he's a god, why do you always have to fight his battles for him?
  • FredMG

    Posts: 990

    Feb 08, 2015 9:50 PM GMT
    OP:

    If your faith can't stand up to a little valid criticism, I question that your faith is all you think it is.
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    Feb 08, 2015 10:10 PM GMT
    Meanwhile in Canada, millions are laughing at the idiotic responses criticizing Obama's speech because it's very clear what he said, and a whole helluva a lot of Christians agree with him. I will remind everyone again of the Christian Militias in Africa that massacred thousands of Muslims. Now Muslim militias are retaliating and escalating the conflict.


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    Feb 08, 2015 11:50 PM GMT
    meninlove saidMeanwhile in Canada, millions are laughing at the idiotic responses criticizing Obama's speech because it's very clear what he said, and a whole helluva a lot of Christians agree with him. I will remind everyone again of the Christian Militias in Africa that massacred thousands of Muslims. Now Muslim militias are retaliating and escalating the conflict.





    ISIS, Taliban, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram have ZERO similarities to those Christian/Muslim conflicts in Central Africa. They kill ANYONE who is against them, regardless of religion, etc.

    What Obama is doing and saying, disregarding religion (I am not Christian) is irresponsible and typical Liberal-defensive, look at this hand while I do something else over here rhetoric. Instead of taking care of the issue and pointing out who the enemy is, they just point fingers at people and blame. They seem to focused on what Republicans want to do and how the USA is horrible and started everything when ISIS is killing people left and right in ways we haven't seen before. After the public and disturbing execution of 2 gay men and others, I am surprised you guys aren't as against them as you should be and almost saying we deserve it. Remember the real enemy and stop killing our country Obama
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    Feb 09, 2015 1:41 AM GMT
    Joeyphx444 said
    meninlove saidMeanwhile in Canada, millions are laughing at the idiotic responses criticizing Obama's speech because it's very clear what he said, and a whole helluva a lot of Christians agree with him. I will remind everyone again of the Christian Militias in Africa that massacred thousands of Muslims. Now Muslim militias are retaliating and escalating the conflict.





    ISIS, Taliban, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram have ZERO similarities to those Christian/Muslim conflicts in Central Africa. They kill ANYONE who is against them, regardless of religion, etc.

    What Obama is doing and saying, disregarding religion (I am not Christian) is irresponsible and typical Liberal-defensive, look at this hand while I do something else over here rhetoric. Instead of taking care of the issue and pointing out who the enemy is, they just point fingers at people and blame. They seem to focused on what Republicans want to do and how the USA is horrible and started everything when ISIS is killing people left and right in ways we haven't seen before. After the public and disturbing execution of 2 gay men and others, I am surprised you guys aren't as against them as you should be and almost saying we deserve it. Remember the real enemy and stop killing our country Obama


    There are similarities in that the overwhelming majority of Christians find such violence abhorrent, and would not want to be judged by the actions of a few. That is all the president was saying in his comments. Do unto others... If you don't want to be judged by the actions of a few in the name of your religion, don't judge others the same way. He is making a call to arms for all people of faith, or not, who find such violence abhorrent.

    Not one person has made any statements remotely suggesting "we deserve it". Not in this thread, and certainly nobody in the administration. Only those who have not heard the entire speech could come away with such a bizarre perspective.
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    Feb 09, 2015 2:13 AM GMT
    Here's an informed and sensible discussion of the "bus" story:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/07/conservatives-rewrite-history-crusades-modern-political-ends

    Really just one more creation of the conservative outrage machine.
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    Feb 09, 2015 2:26 AM GMT
    pouncer saidStephen, are you denying that the Roman Empire ruled all its conquered populations, including Arabs in the Middle East, with an iron fist?
    I am not accusing you of not mentioning the Byzantines, but of misrepresenting them as innocent victims of Islamic conquest. They were a theocratic Christian empire, that succumbed to former colonial subjects who in turn created their own empire. In places such as Spain the divide between Islamic domains and Christian domains often marked the border between civilization and barbarism.



    Pouncer,

    I sincerely asked you:

    Nevertheless, give us some examples of the iron fist and we'll grant that Muslims had a right to rebel. (It may deserve more thorough treatment than that.)
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    Feb 09, 2015 2:54 AM GMT
    socalfitness saidDr. Ben Carson dissects the Obama prayer breakfast speech and clearly describes what Obama is all about

    http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/02/08/dr-ben-carson-dissects-obamas-prayer-breakfast-speech-were-being-betrayed-178436

    Another read from Maureen Scott also gives excellent context to Obama.

    http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/scott/130301
    "Obama appears to be a tormented man who is filled with resentment, anger, and disdain for anyone of an opinion or view other than his. He acts in the most hateful, spiteful, malevolent, vindictive ways in order to manipulate and maintain power and control over others. Perhaps because, as a child, he grew up around family members and mentors who instilled him with an abiding bitterness toward the U.S. That bitterness seems not to have left him. ..." more on link


    Thank you.
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    Feb 09, 2015 2:58 AM GMT
    mickeytopogigio saidI'm pissed that ANY U.S. President is involved with anything called a "prayer breakfast."

    Why not a national "astrology brunch?" Maybe a national "tarot dinner." A "seance supper?"

    Fuck, it's 2015. How long before our civilization outgrows ALL of these bronze-age myths?

    But, oh, boo hoo. Obama didn't lick Christianity's taint. For fuck's sake, Christians, grow a pair. Want to be compared to Islam, who's more outraged by cartoons than murdered children? Act like the "mature" religion in the room, just once, and learn to hear criticism.

    Fuck anyone offended on behalf of their god. If he's a god, why do you always have to fight his battles for him?


    "national "astrology brunch"

    That was Nancy Reagan's
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    Feb 09, 2015 3:09 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    mickeytopogigio saidI'm pissed that ANY U.S. President is involved with anything called a "prayer breakfast."

    Why not a national "astrology brunch?" Maybe a national "tarot dinner." A "seance supper?"

    Fuck, it's 2015. How long before our civilization outgrows ALL of these bronze-age myths?

    But, oh, boo hoo. Obama didn't lick Christianity's taint. For fuck's sake, Christians, grow a pair. Want to be compared to Islam, who's more outraged by cartoons than murdered children? Act like the "mature" religion in the room, just once, and learn to hear criticism.

    Fuck anyone offended on behalf of their god. If he's a god, why do you always have to fight his battles for him?


    "national "astrology brunch"

    That was Nancy Reagan's


    LOL! Didn't old Flo Harding have a penchant for that too? icon_lol.gif
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    Feb 09, 2015 3:14 AM GMT
    MGINSD said
    freedomisntfree said
    mickeytopogigio saidI'm pissed that ANY U.S. President is involved with anything called a "prayer breakfast."

    Why not a national "astrology brunch?" Maybe a national "tarot dinner." A "seance supper?"

    Fuck, it's 2015. How long before our civilization outgrows ALL of these bronze-age myths?

    But, oh, boo hoo. Obama didn't lick Christianity's taint. For fuck's sake, Christians, grow a pair. Want to be compared to Islam, who's more outraged by cartoons than murdered children? Act like the "mature" religion in the room, just once, and learn to hear criticism.

    Fuck anyone offended on behalf of their god. If he's a god, why do you always have to fight his battles for him?


    "national "astrology brunch"

    That was Nancy Reagan's


    LOL! Didn't old Flo Harding have a penchant for that too? icon_lol.gif


    Hey, you're a year older than me so I wasn't around then icon_wink.gif
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    Feb 09, 2015 3:14 AM GMT
    Did the bombs hurt or kill any ISIS civilians?

    Was there a report in the last 12 months indicating the U.S. used torture?

    Oh, but that was torture, that wasn't cutting people's throats and setting them on fire.

    Solve the Islamic State political problem: reject them and nation-build by replacing them or accept them. Does that mean giving them Syria, Iraq, or parts of these two countries? Stabilize this political mess and they will stop. Then get on them for human rights violations against bisexuals and homosexuals.

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    Feb 09, 2015 2:38 PM GMT
    Stephenoabc: Give us some examples of the iron fist and we'll grant that Muslims had a right to rebel.

    pouncer said"Right" to rebel? What about the Roman "right" to occupy Mecca and Yathrib? Or to attack Sheba, besiege their capital and destroy the port of Aden? Or to conquer Petra and subjugate the Nabateans? Recall this was also the period Rome was slaughtering rebellious Jews in Palestine. And you ask for an iron fist?


    You examples are:

    Rome occupied Mecca and Yathrib.

    Rome attacked Sheba, besieged their capital and destroyed the port of Aden.

    Rome conquered Petra and subjugated the Nabateans?

    Rome was slaughtering rebellious Jews in Palestine.

    Muslim and non-Muslim scholars disagree on whether Muhammad compiled the Quran during his lifetime or if this task began with the first caliph Abu Bakr (632-634). Once the Quran was compiled, due to the unanimity of the sources, Muslims agree that the Quran we see today was canonized by Uthman (653-656).

    We are then discussing the time period of approximately 632 - 1094? That's when the items you brought up occurred?

  • metta

    Posts: 54330

    Feb 09, 2015 7:53 PM GMT
    Fox News' Eric Bolling Says Only Muslims Kill In The Name Of Religion


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/09/eric-bolling-muslims-kill-in-the-name-of-religion_n_6645002.html
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    Feb 09, 2015 8:35 PM GMT
    metta8 saidFox News' Eric Bolling Says Only Muslims Kill In The Name Of Religion


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/09/eric-bolling-muslims-kill-in-the-name-of-religion_n_6645002.html


    I agree with him.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 09, 2015 8:38 PM GMT
    metta8 saidFox News' Eric Bolling Says Only Muslims Kill In The Name Of Religion


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/09/eric-bolling-muslims-kill-in-the-name-of-religion_n_6645002.html

    How old fashioned! They should kill in the name of oil and supremacy. Duh.
  • metta

    Posts: 54330

    Feb 09, 2015 8:58 PM GMT
    Christian Groups in Africa have recently killed Muslims in the name of religion.

    Gay people have been killed in the name of Christianity. Gosh....are we forgetting about Uganda?

    What about the Salem witch trials?

    Christians have been killing people in the name of Christianity for centuries.



    VICTIMS OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH
    http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 09, 2015 9:43 PM GMT
    metta8 saidChristian Groups in Africa have recently killed Muslims in the name of religion.

    Gay people have been killed in the name of Christianity. Gosh....are we forgetting about Uganda?

    What about the Salem witch trials?

    Christians have been killing people in the name of Christianity for centuries.



    VICTIMS OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH
    http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm


    "What about the Salem witch trials?"

    Yeah, I forgot about that. That was just last week wasn't it?
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 09, 2015 9:50 PM GMT
    metta8 saidChristian Groups in Africa have recently killed Muslims in the name of religion.

    Gay people have been killed in the name of Christianity. Gosh....are we forgetting about Uganda?

    What about the Salem witch trials?

    Christians have been killing people in the name of Christianity for centuries.



    VICTIMS OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH
    http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

    I think provoking the ire of Christians is only going to create more religulous extremism.