Gays that don't believe in the bible? Is this more common now, and would you befriend them?

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    Mar 03, 2015 4:55 PM GMT
    Religion is based on superstition, from a dark time when scientific methods didn't exist. Science now does exist, so that religious superstition should become obsolete.

    Fascinating to study as an ancient cultural phenomenon, but counter-productive to apply to the modern world. One might as well follow the ancient Egyptian religious beliefs, which existed for 3000 years, longer than Christianity has, predating even Judaism.

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    Mar 03, 2015 5:40 PM GMT
    Sharkspeare said
    FuzzyPecs27 saidBut his views about creation dumbfounded me. It went as far as his not even believing in God, Adam and Eve, and the bible.

    Dumbfounded you, really? This is the first atheist you'd ever met? Wow.


    There aren't really that many atheists. But it does seem that there is a greater percentage of atheists who are gay then str8. My bf and I have friends that are atheists and it works out fine because nobody tries to shove their views down anyone's throat. My bf and I will take their cock down our throat, lol but trying to force beliefs and opinions on others will always not end well.
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    Mar 03, 2015 5:47 PM GMT
    FuzzyPecs27 said
    When I presented my beliefs from what I've been taught and read over the years,................. he just made it seem like the only reason I believe that, is because I've been brainwashed to believe it as a kid, and that's the only reason.........

    The first part of that sentence pretty much gives evidence you've been brainwashed/indoctrinated into accepting christianity as you do. The fact that you probably don't even see that as being a possibility is an even stronger sign.




    FuzzyPecs27 saidHe went even further to challenge me and say that one day, the bible will be exposed as a fraud,..........

    A great deal of it already has been proven to be false and accepted as false by many.

    *Biblical Creation - Impossible

    *Moses never existed and there was never a Flight from Egypt, no enormous numbers of Hebrew slaves ever in Egypt, no wandering in the desert.

    There's nothing holy about the Holy Trinity of Christianity if you read the facts and history of its origins.

    Jesus wasn't the first and only man to supposedly be the son of a mortal woman and god who performed miracles and offered salvation after death. He was the SEVENTH and LAST.

    and that's just a few examples.......

    If you want to determine the strength of a piece of iron you work to bend it or break it.

    Why is it that people think the way to way to prove the strength of their beliefs is to never attempt to bend or break them?


  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 5262

    Mar 03, 2015 6:25 PM GMT
    Ya... No I don't believe in 1,700 year old fantasies though I do think some of Jesus' words are good advice. Basically just golden rule said dozens of ways. And no, I wouldn't seriously be with someone who believed in the antithesis of rational thought.
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    Mar 03, 2015 6:54 PM GMT
    Did you bother to expound on why you believe in the bible other than what what you've been taught and read?

    When push comes to shove it really is about faith and whether you choose to believe or not.

    I choose to be highly skeptical.
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    Mar 03, 2015 7:50 PM GMT
    OP seems to either be the most sheltered/oblivious person on RJ or the most long-lived troll ever
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    Mar 03, 2015 7:51 PM GMT
    FuzzyPecs27

    The bible specifically speaks AGAINST religion.
    The bible has never been a proponent of religion.

    Stephenoabc

    You're in error. God establishes religion in the Torah.
    Jesus fulfills religion in the New Testament.
    Jesus taught people how to pray and dispensed blessings.

    FuzzyPecs27

    Believing in the creator is not religious. It's fact.

    Stephenoabc

    We know there is a space entity who is Creator?

    You're in error.

    The only thing we know is living creatures started growing on this planet.

    The only other thing we know is that the Sun was created by a nebula that dissipated--the Creator that comes in and goes out of existence. So, you do not know there is a Creator still around to believe in and worship. Sure, there are different nebulae in the Milky Way but there is not a monotheistic Creator around which to build a belief system.
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    Mar 03, 2015 7:57 PM GMT
    Our planet was Created by our Star-Sun.
    We know how Stars are created.

    How are galaxies created? Are they created by a Creator entity with personhood?

    I can say the Solar System Astrological Matrix has personhood because if you consult it, it knows each and every one of us.

    Does the Galaxy-Creator know each and every one of the stars in the Milky Way?

    I'd say no. In the case of human beings known by the Solar System, Astrological Matrix God Level, the Solar System still exists and has not dissipated as the Star-Creator-Nebula has dissipated. Yes, the galaxy of stars still exists but the Star Creators dissipate. (And stars die also.)
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    Mar 03, 2015 9:37 PM GMT
    What dumbfounds me is that in the 21st century there are still educated people that take religion seriously. In all honesty, religion/belief/whatever is utter nonsense. Some people see this right away, some people arrive at it later in life, some people die believing fairy tales.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4999

    Mar 04, 2015 12:05 AM GMT
    The idea that one must believe that everything in the Bible represents the Will of God is nonsense. Historically speaking, that idea is actually quite recent.

    Parts of the Bible are a reflection of ancient Hebrew culture that has nothing to do with the will of God. Other parts are ancient Hebrew history slanted to justify the ghastly things that the ancient Hebrews did. It may be that the inclusion of the above is in accordance with God's will to give us a better understanding of the ancient Hebrews, but that does not mean that we are expected to follow it.

    Some of the OT prophets were very concerned with fairness and justice; that does represent the will of God to the extent that it is relevant to today's situation. The Summary of the Law, as reiterated by Jesus, does represent the will of God. That is, somewhat condensed, to love God and our fellow human beings. Many Christian theologians see that as the entire law.

    The Ten Commandments and some other parts of the OT are compatible with the Summary of the Law and are generally binding.

    So, what is meant by believing the Bible requires some explanation. It's not an all or nothing thing.
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    Mar 04, 2015 12:21 AM GMT
    FRE0 saidThe idea that one must believe that everything in the Bible represents the Will of God is nonsense. Historically speaking, that idea is actually quite recent.

    Parts of the Bible are a reflection of ancient Hebrew culture that has nothing to do with the will of God. Other parts are ancient Hebrew history slanted to justify the ghastly things that the ancient Hebrews did. It may be that the inclusion of the above is in accordance with God's will to give us a better understanding of the ancient Hebrews, but that does not mean that we are expected to follow it.

    Some of the OT prophets were very concerned with fairness and justice; that does represent the will of God to the extent that it is relevant to today's situation. The Summary of the Law, as reiterated by Jesus, does represent the will of God. That is, somewhat condensed, to love God and our fellow human beings. Many Christian theologians see that as the entire law.

    The Ten Commandments and some other parts of the OT are compatible with the Summary of the Law and are generally binding.

    So, what is meant by believing the Bible requires some explanation. It's not an all or nothing thing.


    How do you know the parts you define as reflecting the will of God reflect the will of God? How do you know where they came from?
  • FRE0

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    Mar 04, 2015 12:50 AM GMT
    donj499 said
    FRE0 saidThe idea that one must believe that everything in the Bible represents the Will of God is nonsense. Historically speaking, that idea is actually quite recent.

    Parts of the Bible are a reflection of ancient Hebrew culture that has nothing to do with the will of God. Other parts are ancient Hebrew history slanted to justify the ghastly things that the ancient Hebrews did. It may be that the inclusion of the above is in accordance with God's will to give us a better understanding of the ancient Hebrews, but that does not mean that we are expected to follow it.

    Some of the OT prophets were very concerned with fairness and justice; that does represent the will of God to the extent that it is relevant to today's situation. The Summary of the Law, as reiterated by Jesus, does represent the will of God. That is, somewhat condensed, to love God and our fellow human beings. Many Christian theologians see that as the entire law.

    The Ten Commandments and some other parts of the OT are compatible with the Summary of the Law and are generally binding.

    So, what is meant by believing the Bible requires some explanation. It's not an all or nothing thing.


    How do you know the parts you define as reflecting the will of God reflect the will of God? How do you know where they came from?


    When Jesus was asked which is the most important law, He replied as follows:

    “'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

    That is commonly referred to as the Summary of the Law. When He said that, he was actually quoting from the OT. I can see that atheists would object to the first, but do you really believe that any reasonable person, regardless of belief, would object to the second? Surely fair minded people would uphold it.

    In this context, love does not mean mere sentiment. Rather, it is an active kind of love that determines our behavior. We don't have to like someone, but if he is in trouble, we should make a reasonable effort to help. Obviously "reasonable" includes grey areas in which there will not be complete agreement and we have to use good sense.

    I believe that Biblical laws which cannot be broken without violating the Summary of the Law are binding and that Biblical laws which can be broken without violating the Summary of the Law are not binding. That is my sole criterion to determine which Biblical laws are binding.

    Thus, a Biblical law which requires a woman to marry her rapist certainly is not binding and probably never was; it is simply a reflection of ancient Hebrew culture which no doubt is opposed to the Will of God and certainly is not compatible with the Summary of the Law. On the other hand, the command against bearing false witness certainly is binding because it is fully compatible with the Summary of the Law.
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    Mar 04, 2015 2:17 AM GMT
    With all due respect FRE0, you answer is a statement of faith. You didn't really answer my question, how do you know which passages reflect the will of God? The stuff about Jesus is an unverifiable story. There is no way to verify that he was God, that he said what the Bible says he said, that he even existed, or that God exists.
  • FRE0

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    Mar 04, 2015 2:35 AM GMT
    donj499 saidWith all due respect FRE0, you answer is a statement of faith. You didn't really answer my question, how do you know which passages reflect the will of God? The stuff about Jesus is an unverifiable story. There is no way to verify that he was God, that he said what the Bible says he said, that he even existed, or that God exists.


    Quite frankly, I am not inclined to debate details. Moreover, I'm much more concerned with how people treat each other than I am with what they profess to believe. The fact is that if everyone followed the second part of the Summary of the Law, the world would be a much better place in which to live regardless of what one believes about its source. I also suspect that God is more concerned with how we treat each other than he is with all the details of belief.

    If Christians had actually followed the Summary of the Law, there would be far fewer people who eschew organized religion. It would have been impossible to have slavery, Jim Crow laws, discrimination against Jews, numerous wars, an extreme gap between rich and poor, inexcusably dangerous industrial conditions, etc. etc., if people had actually followed the Summary of the Law regardless of what one believes about its source.

    There are many things we accept without proof. If we did not, our daily lives would be impossible. It is easy to say that there is no proof that God exists, but also there is no proof that he doesn't exist. Some of us believe that it is more logical to believe that God exist rather than to believe that everything in the universe is an accident.

    In any case, I do not believe that God dictated the Bible to a stenotypist who then transferred it to a CD-ROM so that it would forever be preserved intact.
  • metta

    Posts: 54330

    Mar 04, 2015 2:54 AM GMT
    Changing face of American religion

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4012794#68686_4014345_name
  • Apparition

    Posts: 4588

    Mar 04, 2015 3:35 AM GMT
    Christians are just one god away from being atheists, and rarely believe more than 1-2% of their own religion (mostly being ignorant of the actual text having never read it, relying on the brainwashing since childhood, christianity being almost 100% hereditary...), or just being in denial of the actual requirements because they are icky, uncomfortable, expensive, or they just dont want to expend the energy). There are tens of thousands of gods that they dismiss with nary a thought, but are STUNNED when someone dismisses their particular sky faerie with the same ease. This makes them intolerable to be more than passing acquaintances with. for me.

    Discussions with religious people involving logic or science are pointless because religious people will lose every single time. A debate will inevitably lead to the religious person stating the equivalent of the statement "my book doesnt say that because it is either:

    1. 'no longer in effect but I will still use it to debate you/believe it'

    or

    2. 'written in *MAGICAL english'

    Point two, usually takes the form of an argument that even though English is the most expansive and complex language ever invented, simple verbs and nouns grunted by cavemen 2000 years ago could in no way ever be translated by ANYONE in the intervening 2000 years, except in a way that they are MAGICALLY the opposite in meaning of the author when the atheist uses them, but inerrant in all ways forever if the Christian uses them. Simple things like "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" to an atheist means just that, but MAGICALLY, to the christian it means 'except you know when we want to invade muslim countries, or torture gays in oklahoma, or an abortion clinic terrorist for jesus, etc.


    Matthew 6, is another particularly MAGICAL english passage, fully in context, where gods words have the literal or residual effect of forbidding the rosary, praying in public, praying in church, praying for kids with leukemia, tax deductions for religious donations, etc. Christians are almost completely oblivious to the rules clearly stated in this passage, and are usually shocked when the word of god is revealed and they squirm and revert to MAGICAL english whereby the entire passage means YES THE SHOULD DO ALL OF THE BANNED THINGS. The brainwashers/ministers are very careful to NEVER mention matthew 6 before the fun part starting with "OUR FATHER WHO ART..."

    AFter being forced until the age 11 to go to sunday school, I finally had enough when my teacher one week stated some facts that I could prove to be false, and called her on it, at which point she gave me the speech that I was the child and she was the adult and I should just accept what she was right. I told her that these were FACTS that were not debateable and listed the 4 things she got wrong. She was annoyed and repeated the adult/child thing, whereby I told her that if she persisted in being incorrect that I was the adult and SHE was the child, and would prove her incorrect and she would resign and I wold teach the class with CORRECT facts. She dismissed me as a child, until the next week when I arrived with bookmarked Encyclopedia pages on every point, and got her to read them to the class after reading out her assertions enumerated on list I had typed. My mother watched as this happened. The teacher got redder and redder as she was read the verbatim encylopedia page proving her wrong. At the end I demanded her resignation and dismissal. The minister was called in and thinking he was high and mighty about to quell the wrath of a small child, until I LAID into him all the BLASPHEMOUS things that he was perpetuationg in the church, everything from the war memorial (thou shalt not kill), to praying in church or public (matthew 6), the names on the donated items (matthew 6 ) and many other things I had prepared. All the flabergasted redfaced adults were stunned that a well prepared kid had disproved most of their religion and still had a list of issues making them squirm...

    It was suggested that maybe it was acceptable that I didnt have to attend anymore, since I was demanding to be put in charge. Which was great because I used to like watching wrestling saturday night which was on at 2am and conflicted with getting up sunday morning.

    Lots of great philosophy in the bible, but just as much in Harry potter, and hard to distinguish between the two really...and similar amounts of publication...really which is the one to believe, just as much evidence for both.

    One parting argument against any relevance of the bible in factual terms...it's lack of knowledge of 99% of the world which an all knowing seeing god MIGHT have mentioned.

    100% of the bible takes place inside the red dot...exactly WHAT WOULD ANYONE BELIEVE THAT IS WRITTEN THERE NOW...HONESTLY?

    world map.jpg

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 04, 2015 4:28 AM GMT
    Where is the evidence that a crudely written Bronze Age book is valid? I'm waiting...
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    Mar 04, 2015 5:06 AM GMT
    This feels like a troll, but....fuck it!
    You go on a first date with a guy and get into a debate on religion? WTF is wrong with you?.... And now you are irritated with the guy because you couldn't sway him to your way of thinking? What were the opening comments on?....Abortion, Politics, Gun Rights? why does it matter that he is an atheist, well to do and comfortable with his world views and philosophy? He put up with you and your debate for 2 hours....maybe he liked you in spite of, or because of, those strong differences.....For someone so young to be so inflexible and closed to a different way of thinking is really disappointing. Good Luck if there is a next date.icon_rolleyes.gif
  • bfirbs

    Posts: 55

    Mar 04, 2015 10:32 AM GMT
    I've been an atheist since I was around 15 or 16. I cannot say I know there isn't a god. But personally I find the entire concept of a higher power rediculous and not because I'm gay. "walking in the light"? How is being part of religion walking in the light? To me that is walking in the dark. Very few of the modern advancements of today are because of religion.
    Why would this god(s) create mankind in his/her image, but create species of animals and plants that are dangerous or poisonous to us so we can't eat them? Why would he/she create disease? And the Adam and Eve story is a bit of a farce. Being as we know of DNA, if Eve was made from Adam's rib, her genome would have had XY chromosomes and not XX, making Eve a guy. And Adam being made from dirt? The bible is no more realistic than books by Dr. Seuss
  • bfirbs

    Posts: 55

    Mar 04, 2015 11:01 AM GMT
    Then there is also the principle that if your religion is the one true religion, then none of these other religions should exist. God is suppose to be the creator of the world and everyone and everything on it, so there would be none of these other religions because he/she would have been the one to give these holy teachings and could very easily have made sure everyone only worshipped him/her.
    Creationist theory is another farce. Even if someone is religious I don't know how anyone can believe that. The earth is 6000 to 10000 years old and yet we have things proving things have been around longer.
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    Mar 04, 2015 5:19 PM GMT
    metta8 saidIn regards to the question, I generally don't care if someone is religious or not.

    It is not just people that are gay that are becoming less religious. People in the US are statistically less religious than they have been. Being agnostic, atheist, not belonging to any religion has been growing for a while now and will most likely continue to grow. There are many reasons for this, but one of the biggest reasons is that people have the internet, where they can easily get more information.

    At some point, many people are questioning what they grew up with, what their beliefs are, how logical these beliefs are, what is realistic, what is harmful, what is helpful, etc. Is it enough to say that you are 'enter particular religion here' because you were taught to be that....because your family is that...etc.? Are you able to back up your beliefs with verifiable (repeatable) facts? Example: 1+1=2 is a fact. Having something printed in a book does not make it a fact.

    And then there is the part of actually studying the history of various religions. Originally, religion was created prior to any government. It was a way to create structure and rules in various societies. Gosh, just look at the history of the Catholic church, that was at one time so powerful that the Pope would choose who would be king and queen. Then there were also governments that used various religions to help control society as well. Even today, you see so many people killed in the name of religion.

    When I was 17-18 years old, I didn't want what sounded good or felt good...I wanted what could be backed up by fact. A reality based life. For me, it was a book written to prove that God existed that made me realize that the whole thing did not make sense. Meditations on First Philosophy by René Descartes


    Excellent explanation.

    It took me a long time to understand how so many religions have developed over the course of time, until I realized that the religions grew out of the need to establish a civil, social structure in which "large" groups of people could exist peaceably as we moved from being small familial groups of hunter-gathers into tribes of more established social structures. Any collection of people has ones of different skills. Some are brawny; some are brainy. The brawny ones tended to be chosen as leaders (king); the brainy ones set about developing "rules" for their society. All this also took place in an atmosphere of general public illiteracy. Sometimes the brainy bunch came up with a better system than others' systems, and the religion was more socially successful.

    Any society also has its myths. These can be relatively harmless or can be all the way to vicious. The Bible is clearly one of the great books of all civilization and is also one of the world's great treasures of recommendations on how to behave in life. It also has some passages which are utter nonsense written out of complete ignorance of scientific facts and well as some good ol' plain myths which are great stories to tell and retell.

    Etc., etc., etc. Maturity behooves one to think critically and appreciate that which should be appreciated and treat that which is patent nonsense appropriately. It is possible to develop a more sophisticated belief system. If one chooses not so to do, then one should also recognize one's limitations and others' as well.

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    Mar 04, 2015 7:54 PM GMT
    donj499 saidThe stuff about Jesus is an unverifiable story. There is no way to verify that he was God, that he said what the Bible says he said, that he even existed.


    Jesus can be a deity. Jesus cannot be God.

    Much of Jesus is verifiable.
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    Mar 04, 2015 7:56 PM GMT
    CLTMike46 saidWhere is the evidence that a crudely written Bronze Age book is valid? I'm waiting...


    In my profile is a video on Adam and Eve, a historical perspective. That is one way it is valid.

    The Bronze Age seems to end around 950 B.C.
    Books in the Hebrew Bible and the whole New Testament date after the Bronze Age.
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    Mar 04, 2015 10:43 PM GMT
    I'm from a country where the majority are atheists. We don't really learn about Adam or Eve or the bible at school. And if we do, then it's just briefly mentioned in maybe a class and nothing more than that. Growing up, I never really thought the need of becoming religious.

    My parents come from two different cultures where different religions are being worshipped etc. But that just made the decision for me to become an atheist even easier, because I just couldn't bother choosing one.

    Honestly, I feel like there are other things that I should focus on, rather than being faithful to someone who can't be seen. Which also brings me to my other point that, I just don't really care if there is someone out there. Or how the universe was created. It's fascinating, but in the end I don't really care that much... I would rather focus on the present than the past.
  • FRE0

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    Mar 04, 2015 11:24 PM GMT
    uncharted95 saidI'm from a country where the majority are atheists. We don't really learn about Adam or Eve or the bible at school. And if we do, then it's just briefly mentioned in maybe a class and nothing more than that. Growing up, I never really thought the need of becoming religious.

    My parents come from two different cultures where different religions are being worshipped etc. But that just made the decision for me to become an atheist even easier, because I just couldn't bother choosing one.

    Honestly, I feel like there are other things that I should focus on, rather than being faithful to someone who can't be seen. Which also brings me to my other point that, I just don't really care if there is someone out there. Or how the universe was created. It's fascinating, but in the end I don't really care that much... I would rather focus on the present than the past.


    Because I strongly believe in the separation of church and state, I believe that what public tax-supported schools teach about religion should be limited to the history of various religions and what people need to know to understand people who believe in those religions or have been influenced by them. I am a Christian, but when religion and government become entangled with each other, both become corrupted; that is clear from history. It is partly because some religions have abused their influence that many people have turned away from them. There should be complete freedom of religion.