Hands Up, Don't Shoot: Never have so many been so wrong and won't admit it.

  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2625

    Mar 15, 2015 12:32 AM GMT
    woodfordr saidI think:
    1. Michael Brown was doing the wrong thing and he contributed to his own death.
    2. That enough people in Ferguson were likely targeted to the extent that the community felt harrassed.
    3. That police need our support to protect our community.
    4. That our community needs the support of the police, too.


    +1
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    Mar 15, 2015 12:37 AM GMT
    woodfordr saidI think:
    1. Michael Brown was doing the wrong thing and he contributed to his own death.
    2. That enough people in Ferguson were likely targeted to the extent that the community felt harrassed.
    3. That police need our support to protect our community.
    4. That our community needs the support of the police, too.

    Exactly...people should treat the cops with the same polite deference we'd treat other people with...but it's a TWO-WAY street. The cops owe the SAME respect to ordinary people.
  • BuddhaLing

    Posts: 108

    Mar 15, 2015 12:27 PM GMT
    woodfordr saidI think:
    1. Michael Brown was doing the wrong thing and he contributed to his own death.
    2. That enough people in Ferguson were likely targeted to the extent that the community felt harrassed.
    3. That police need our support to protect our community.
    4. That our community needs the support of the police, too.


    Woodfordr, you have said it the best that I have seen or heard on RJ or any of the various news outlets! Thank you for being objective!
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    Mar 15, 2015 1:12 PM GMT
    Alpha13 saidWhy did we never hear from the Asian shop keeper that Brown roughed up and robbed.,not a word? Why didn't the media cover the half dozen or so black on black gang murders in Oakland around the same time.


    Because White American's hate to be reminded of their racist past, even though none of us were alive back then or guilty of slavery. Black gangs killing people happens daily and we're told if we criticise Blacks we are racist, which makes us feel guilty and so we go along with it. We've been guilted into believing that we must accept violence from Blacks because our great grandfathers enslaved them.

    I'd like to buy that cop a drink for removing Michael Brown from the Earth. Black or White, he was a piece of shit who didn't deserve to breath oxygen. And the only reason this made the news is because of his skin color.


    This is the guy the bleeding heart liberals like "Hott"Joe and Pazzy love to defend.
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    Mar 15, 2015 1:25 PM GMT
    Pazzy? Hottjoe is 10,000 times worse than Pazzy about screaming racist at anyone and everyone.
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    Mar 15, 2015 1:31 PM GMT
    DefensiveEnd saidPazzy? Hottjoe is 10,000 times worse than Pazzy about screaming racist at anyone and everyone.


    You're right. Edited.
  • COLSSSSclosed...

    Posts: 142

    Mar 15, 2015 4:09 PM GMT
    yaaaaa
    GOD BLESS USAicon_wink.gif
    I WILL WHAT THE POLICE ASK
    TRUE
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    Mar 15, 2015 4:25 PM GMT
    pazzy said
    Radd said
    Alpha13 saidWhy did we never hear from the Asian shop keeper that Brown roughed up and robbed.,not a word? Why didn't the media cover the half dozen or so black on black gang murders in Oakland around the same time.


    Because White American's hate to be reminded of their racist past, even though none of us were alive back then or guilty of slavery. Black gangs killing people happens daily and we're told if we criticise Blacks we are racist, which makes us feel guilty and so we go along with it. We've been guilted into believing that we must accept violence from Blacks because our great grandfathers enslaved them.

    I'd like to buy that cop a drink for removing Michael Brown from the Earth. Black or White, he was a piece of shit who didn't deserve to breath oxygen. And the only reason this made the news is because of his skin color.


    This is the guy the bleeding heart liberals like "Hott"Joe and Pazzy love to defend.



    see the problem with you is quite simple. You basically are prejudiced and are determined to hold on to your views no matter how wrong you are and etc.

    just keep it 100. Damn near everything that you've written on here indicates that shit and yet you time and time again instead of owning up to the fact that you are prejudiced, you try to make those that call your ass out to be the ones that are fucked up when it's just you, straight Up.

    I've read your little trayvon Martin discussion and you saying the same shit. Your whole victim blaming, black people are responsible for folks like you being racist towards them where they have to prove themselves to your ass when you never thought any good of them anyway.


    This is why it really makes no sense for you to even speak in these discussions. When you can actually meet up halfway and admit that you are prejudiced to the extent where your views are skewed then talk.

    folks like you think it's all about Mike brown when it's just using him as an example of what way too many black people go through daily. I don't give a fuck about what he did because it's a proven fact that in a society like this, black men don't have to do shit to have the police fuck them up because it's assumed that black men are up to no good. It's a part of the group thought of this country. even if Mike brown didn't do whatever in that store, I guarantee you like some of these other folks would be finding anything you can think of to justify the cops fucking him up or him being harassed by the police. it's always the whole "black people commit the most crime in the country" or some other shit.


    You're full of shit Pazzy and each and every member here (even your "friends" have said so.) You're obsessed with race and defending your race to the point where it doesn't matter if the Black person in question is in the wrong or not. Not to mention you're eerily silent about the video I posted above. This is the man you're defending. And you're defending him SOLELY because he is BLACK. Now who's the racist again?
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    Mar 15, 2015 5:41 PM GMT
    I think its brilliant that in one of the pics posted of the "hands up" protests there is a ticker promoting the premiere of the tv show "How to get away with murder" to perfect.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4999

    Mar 15, 2015 7:58 PM GMT
    mx5guynj saidIn 2013, only 7% of Ferguson African Americans bothered to vote. African Americans make up 67% of Ferguson's population.

    If the majority of Ferguson wants to change their community, they should do it through the ballot box instead of looting, burning their own community and shooting cops.

    Why haven't Ferguson African Americans initiated recall elections for the town council and mayor?

    Why aren't prominent African Americans like Al Sharpton calling for new elections?

    Why isn't Obama calling for new elections?


    New elections? Could Obama legally call for new elections? How about encouraging everyone to vote at the next legally scheduled elections? It certainly looks as though a higher voter turnout could be beneficial.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4999

    Mar 15, 2015 7:59 PM GMT
    libertpaulian said
    woodfordr saidI think:
    1. Michael Brown was doing the wrong thing and he contributed to his own death.
    2. That enough people in Ferguson were likely targeted to the extent that the community felt harrassed.
    3. That police need our support to protect our community.
    4. That our community needs the support of the police, too.

    Exactly...people should treat the cops with the same polite deference we'd treat other people with...but it's a TWO-WAY street. The cops owe the SAME respect to ordinary people.


    Surely that is how it should be.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4999

    Mar 15, 2015 8:06 PM GMT
    Radd said
    Alpha13 saidWhy did we never hear from the Asian shop keeper that Brown roughed up and robbed.,not a word? Why didn't the media cover the half dozen or so black on black gang murders in Oakland around the same time.


    Because White American's hate to be reminded of their racist past, even though none of us were alive back then or guilty of slavery. Black gangs killing people happens daily and we're told if we criticise Blacks we are racist, which makes us feel guilty and so we go along with it. We've been guilted into believing that we must accept violence from Blacks because our great grandfathers enslaved them.

    I'd like to buy that cop a drink for removing Michael Brown from the Earth. Black or White, he was a piece of shit who didn't deserve to breath oxygen. And the only reason this made the news is because of his skin color.


    This is the guy the bleeding heart liberals like "Hott"Joe and Pazzy love to defend.


    I fully agree that when legitimately criticizing people, race should not matter. Both blacks and whites should be evaluated by the same criteria.

    This reminds me of what a friend told me. He got his master's degree from the University of Chicago. There were black students in the dormitory that created noise that was intolerable for others. Complaints to the administration went nowhere. The administration asserted that people should be patient because blacks were culturally noisier! Thus, just because it happened that the noise makers were black, the administration refused to take appropriate action.

    This goes both ways. Both blacks and whites should be held to the same standards of appropriate behavior. Of course, those of us who have studied the issue know that blacks are often treated unfairly because they are black.
  • bishop65

    Posts: 227

    Mar 16, 2015 1:20 AM GMT
    [quote] You keep beating around the bush.... with you like the op, this isn't about Mike brown. It's about deeper implications where Mike brown is just a little piece of the puzzle showing something bigger reflecting on yourself.[/quote]

    THIS!
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    Mar 16, 2015 4:32 AM GMT
    What a bunch of bullshit...so easy to post inflammatory stuff like that being that hiding behind the comfort of a computer screen...
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    Mar 16, 2015 2:38 PM GMT
    Let's keep this simple:

    Since, as has been said, this is *not* just about this case:

    1) Yes, there are cops out there who function in racist fashion towards blacks.

    2) Yes, there are criminals that seem to think that when facing a police officer, they can do what the hell they want.

    3) Yes, there are cops that *don't* behave this way towards blacks.

    4) Yes, some of the above mentionned criminals are black, some are white, some are....fill in all the desired blanks here.

    Are all cops racist assholes? No, and they should not all be treated that way?

    Are all criminals (black or otherwise) cop-killing thugs? No, and they should not all be treated that way.

    The biggest issues are the following:

    a) There are criminals, of all types, who basically think they can ignore the instructions of law enforcement and get away with it.

    b) There are *far* too many people that think *automatically* that someone gets shot because of the colour of their skin, or their religion, or some other factor, ignoring all other factors and situational evidence.

    c) There are far too many cops whose reason for existence is to lord power over the people they are supposed to protect.

    d) Even more sadly, because of the "code" there are far, far, far too many *good* cops who turn a blind eye to the actions of their co-workers because "cops support each other" and they don't want to find themselves without necessary backup at a critical moment because someone still holds a grudge over the fact they didn't support *blindly* another cop, *even* if what they did is wrong. (Yes, Cops have a "gang mentality" themselves)

    "Hands up, don't shoot" wasn't a lie - it *may* not have applied in *this* case, but sadly, as we see every day online, there are a lot of Cops out there that like shooting/beating/harassing people just because the people don't do *exactly* as they say the *instant* they say it, because they are asking *Why?* - which is their right.

    Doctor9
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    Mar 16, 2015 3:25 PM GMT
    Doctor9' s profile photo: Now that's the way you do "Hands up, don't shoot".
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    Mar 16, 2015 3:48 PM GMT
    neffa saidMost of those being shot have a criminal past .
    Does it allow them to be shot , not it doesn't , but if you are guilty of any criminal mischief , be smart , put your hands up and let yourself be arrested .

    It always bring a smile to my face , when i hear the mothers of those shot saying " my child was the best " , i so want to tell them , " Madame , you failed as a parent " !!
    Be smart , don't resist arrest , if you have done nothing wrong , it can just be a misunderstanding that will be cleared later on .
    Life is important , don't mess with your own life !!

    THIS! If I did even ONE of the things Brown did my mother would be all over me and kick my ass before any police could. She'd probably kill me in the process! And if she didn't my dad or older brothers would for being a worthless piece of shit.
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    Mar 16, 2015 4:08 PM GMT
    bobbobbob said
    Kollektiv saidI guess you're the sort of person that points to the Rolling Stone rape article to prove that rape isn't a problem on college campuses.


    To Kollektiv^
    LOL !!! Demographically speaking you just proved you're the type of idiot who automatically believed the Rolling Stone article and that Michael Brown was some sweet innocent boy who never hurt anyone or ever stole a thing.

    The point is that all the arson, vandalism, theft, protests, jivey acts of solidarity, ranting speeches by the #1 profiteer of racial division in the US - were all justified with a sack full of bullshit lies according the DOJ report.

    Just playing around I caught one statistical misrepresentation in the DOJ report that others have noted since. In news reports back several months up to and including the DOJ report idiots have cite stats that "sound" like racism is rampant in Ferguson traffic stops. When you look at it in relationship to other cities FERGUSON HAS A VERY LOW RATE for being stopped by police for "driving while black."

    News media reports

    67% black population with 87% black traffic stops = RACISM

    Bullshit.

    Here's the true analysis.

    Ferguson:
    Blacks = 67% of pop and have 87% of traffic stops (+18% above pop %)

    New York City
    Blacks = 22% of pop and have 56% of traffic stops (+24% above pop %)

    Urbana Ill
    Blacks = 17% of pop and have 44% of traffic stops (+27% above pop %)

    Milwaukee
    Blacks = 40% of pop and have 69% of traffic stops (29% above pop %)

    And the liberal idea that a higher arrest rate for blacks is a sure sign of racism is bullshit. As it is now blacks comprise 13% of the US population and are responsible for 56% of all murders in the USA. There goes that theory that higher rates of arrest are always signs of racism.

    Did you that when looked at in consideration with other cities in the US, Ferguson's arrest rate for blacks is AVERAGE???? Cities with the highest disparities in arrest rates for blacks are actually the ones know for being LIBERAL... Berkley California, -- Madison Wisconsin - Minneapolis - Atlanta - Oakland California.......


    Are you really using these stats to justify your point? We all know stats are only as good as what is reported.

    There is also strong evidence that crimes committed by blacks are over reported and for whites under reported.

    For instance, studies have shown that drug use for Blacks and Whites are about he same. Yet, Blacks are arrested at much higher rates.

    These stats you use in your comments only show where you stand on this issue and what you believe, which has nothing to do with reality.

    All I get from your comments is that you hate Liberals and Minorities. So what else is new.

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    Mar 16, 2015 4:18 PM GMT
    "Hands up, don't shoot" is a phenomenon about EXCESSIVE FORCE by the police against citizens (some innocent, some guilty). But the police can't be judge, jury and executioner. And this movement, though deeply implicating race, goes beyond race and protects ALL citizens (just like civil rights statutes do).

    That the phenomenon is, potentially, inapplicable in Brown's case (I still argue that even assuming he did everything the office said, he shouldn't have been gunned down. Being a little wrong doesn't carte blanche entitle an officer to cap your ass 8 times where you stand), does not mean excessive force doesn't happen.

    Excessive force happens ALL THE TIME in the U.S. The cases are notorious and ubiquitous.

    Let's also not forget the SYSTEMATIC AND INSTITUTIONAL RACISM that was found by the report. Using tickets as ad hoc taxes, using citizens as a source of revenue, and doing so in a racist manner that intentionally targeted blacks disproportionately and by all accounts resulted in a disparate impact against the black community as well. So, really, the movement continues.
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    Mar 16, 2015 6:24 PM GMT
    Lets review and put things in perspective.

    Svnw is the guy who said "Hillary complied with all rules, went completely transparent' - a totally false statement based on the evidence.

    Svnw is the guy who recently boasted he gives reasoned, sourced but seldom provides sources. On page 4 [url]http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4013782?forumpage=4
    [/url]
    Svnw along with others is quick to accuse racism based on his own irrational interpretations of other people's words. Go here to page 2 for a classic example. http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4014114?forumpage=1 Please notice on that after he was exposed on that thread as being irrational and irresponsible he made no attempt to defend or explain his behavior.

    Svnw asserted that Michael Brown was shot 8 times He was shot 6 times.

    But these words of his defy reason. "That the phenomenon is, potentially, inapplicable in Brown's case (I still argue that even assuming he did everything the office said, he shouldn't have been gunned down. Being a little wrong doesn't carte blanche entitle an officer to cap your ass 8 times where you stand), does not mean excessive force doesn't happen."

    There's no assuming to it unless Svnw has some greater information that was...
    1. Presented to a grand jury
    2. corroborated by investigations by St Louis County, the State of Missouri, and the Department of Justice
    3. corroborated by all witnesses (most black) except the one man who was complicit with Michael Brown in stealing dope smoking materials and assaulting a mployee of a convenience store.
    4.corroborated by two independent autopsies and two forensics investigations.

    "Being a little wrong"?? Using these words in relationship to Michael Brown's actions before his death is an insult to the intelligence of everyone who isn't blinded by ideology.

    Witnesses, forensic evidence and the results of both autopsies all back up the policeman's story that.
    1. Michael Brown slammed the patrol car door as the officer prepared to get out.
    2. Michael Brown reached in the patrol car and hit the officer
    3. Michael Brown attempted to get the policeman's firearm.
    4. After receiving non life threatening wounds, Michael Brown disobeyed the policeman when told to get down on the ground.
    5. Michael Brown charged the policeman receiving the fatal wounds that could not have been inflicted in any position other than a full out charging stance.

    In progressive mutual masturbation circles it's all very easy to talk about excessive police force being notorious and ubiquitous. However what is even more more notorious and ubiquitous are the disproportionately high rates of crime committed by blacks. 93% of all black victims of homicide are killed by blacks

    Homicide (from wiki [url]http://
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States[/url] )
    According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with whites 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites (per 100,000), and the victim rate 6 times higher (per 100,000). Most murders were intraracial, with 84% of white homicide victims murdered by whites, and 93% of black victims murdered by blacks.

    Huffington Post report: Homicide leading cause of death in you black men. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/10/leading-cause-of-death-young-black-men-homicide_n_3049209.html
    "About 88 out of every 100,000 young black men in the county were killed in homicides. That exceeds the national rate (77), and is more than double neighboring Broward County (35). Miami-Dade, however, was higher (124), while the New Orleans area had a whopping rate of 426 per 100,000."

    If we apply the DOJ 93% figure for black on black homicides to the 88 per 100,000 we come up with 82 killed by blacks and 6 killed by all other races including cases of Svnw's alleged "notorious and ubiquitous excessive police force being."

    I'm not a religious fellow but this seems like an appropriate moment to cite Matthew 7:5

    "English Standard Version
    You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."

    I'm just pointing out facts from the DOJ, the same DOJ that investigated Ferguson. If I'm called a racist for relying on facts over lie-based emotional rhetoric it will say more about those who throw the word around than about me.





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    Mar 16, 2015 6:30 PM GMT
    @BobBobBob

    What a crock of BS. We all know what "side" you're on, and your blinders are apparent to all but you. Have fun with your cherry-picked stats in your misguided attempt to justify excessive force by US police against its very citizens.

    You, sir, are a joke. The "Hands up, don't shoot" movement will not stop at Ferguson. I can't wait until history relegates you to the likes of those who sympathized and proferred BS stats to help defend Gov. Wallace's "Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever." You would have been that shill at the local coffee shop talking about the "disruption" that the black activists were causing, defending the use of water hoses against the protesters, and handing out "fact sheets" about the higher black crime rates.

    Same song, different verse. Yet you claim to be a promoter of equality. Your lack of self-awareness is startling.
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    Mar 16, 2015 6:47 PM GMT
    Dispute the facts if you can find facts to do so. Otherwise please continue to show us how predictably irresponsible you are.

    As you can see (but obviously fail to acknowledge) Eric Holder's DOJ has supplied these facts. If you want to dispute them please direct your nonsensical rants at him for producing either false data or saying things you just don't like because they don't fit within your mantra.
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    Mar 16, 2015 8:22 PM GMT
    http://www.alternet.org/culture/why-white-people-freak-out-when-theyre-called-out-about-race
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    Mar 16, 2015 8:42 PM GMT
    @ PhoenixNYC

    Have you no facts from any organization on par with the DOJ to dispute anything I wrote?

    I read the linked article you gave. I relied on solely on opinions of the woman being interviewed and she cannot present any facts to back her "white fragility" theory or she would have been exceedingly willing to do so.
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    Mar 16, 2015 8:50 PM GMT
    pazzy saidreal talk, i never understood why so many older gay white men care about politics so much? they are DEAD serious about that shit and the crazy part is the politicians, parties and movements that they are defending and fighting for don't even give a fuck about them especially the conservative side which usually it's most conservatives that are the ones ready to announce their presence about how much they hate president obama. icon_lol.gif like it just makes me wonder if these guys are even aware or delusional.


    Pazzy, as you are aware, the vast majority of members in RJ have gone on record about your delusions and lack of awareness.

    You make the third person who's commented after me that has not even attempted to produce data in an attempt to prove anything I wrote was wrong or racially motivated.

    It has nothing to do with conservative/liberal. It has everything to do with the facts. If you have trouble dealing with these issues based on facts then that in itself constitutes proof of your being delusional.