When a Pride March Means Owning the Shame of Racial and Economic Injustice

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    Jun 05, 2017 11:59 PM GMT
    I truly believe that the "gay community" is white and racist.

    Here is the entire piece:

    http://religiondispatches.org/when-a-pride-march-means-owning-the-shame-of-racial-and-economic-injustice/
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    Jun 06, 2017 2:29 PM GMT
    I'm not convinced by this. One of our gay friends is Black. We saw him yesterday, always hugs & kisses.. We advised and helped him when he had prostate cancer, both of us having had it ourselves. He's doing OK.

    Another Black friend was from Haiti. He also got cancer, but caught late, incurable. A number of us White guys helped him during his treatment, and were in his nursing home room, visiting & aiding him in his last days so that he wasn't alone. A portion of his ashes were given to us by his family, and reside in our glass display cabinet today.

    A White guy, a best friend who's known my husband for 20 years, got legally married here in Florida to a Japanese-native Hawaiian guy. I took all the wedding photos for them for free as a gift. Not my first wedding photos. I made money that way in college, along with doing personal résumé pics, and some industrial/commercial work.

    Where we live racial prejudice is rarely seen openly. Although I know it exists in some quarters. We had become friends with a gay couple, and driven down to Key West together several times. had dinners with them, been to their house many times.

    Until one of them, a Louisiana native, after we had known them for nearly 2 years, started using the "N" word. And trashing Blacks in every way. Unacceptable to us, and we terminated our relationship. Haven't seen them since then.

    So I know this exists. But I think it's particular to the individual, whether straight or gay, and not endemic to the general gay community. At least not the gay community that we know.
  • bro4bro

    Posts: 3899

    Jun 06, 2017 4:01 PM GMT
    This opinion piece was heavily flawed from the start, but they completely lost me with this line:

    "The very assumption that cisgender white men can still act as LGBTQ community spokespersons itself reeks of racism."

    In other words, as a gay white male who was born a gay white male I'm irrelevant?

    I'm racist by definition if I even try to speak out for the community?

    Bullshit.

    If the author of this piece of shit (a lily-white "progressive Christian" activist who does not typically write about gay issues - is he even gay?) spent as much time actually DOING SOMETHING about this perceived "bias" instead of whining about it he might learn something.
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    Jun 06, 2017 4:19 PM GMT
    Wow, there's so much bullshit in this post, I need my wading boots. :-/
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    Jun 06, 2017 4:59 PM GMT
    livstud2001 saidWow, there's so much bullshit in this post, I need my wading boots. :-

    Well it was posted by WoodyTheH, surely no one expected any better.
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    Jun 06, 2017 5:03 PM GMT
    Lumpyoatmeal said
    livstud2001 saidWow, there's so much bullshit in this post, I need my wading boots. :-

    Well it was posted by WoodyTheH, surely no one expected any better.


    I don't know who this user is, but I'll take your word for it ;-)
  • DrobUA

    Posts: 1352

    Jun 06, 2017 6:03 PM GMT
    Yea the article has literally no facts and extremely misguided opinions. Since when is the Los Angeles LGBT center a "White run institution" and the ten freeway divides "white LA and black/brown LA"? Since when is la segregated? Gay bars are unwelcoming to black patrons? Evidence being... I live in LA and I have seen no signs of any of this. It's a melting pot and the author is just trying to start shit
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    Jun 06, 2017 6:30 PM GMT
    bro4bro said
    This opinion piece was heavily flawed from the start, but they completely lost me with this line:

    "The very assumption that cisgender white men can still act as LGBTQ community spokespersons itself reeks of racism."

    In other words, as a gay white male who was born a gay white male I'm irrelevant?

    I'm racist by definition if I even try to speak out for the community?

    Bullshit.

    If the author of this piece of shit (a lily-white "progressive Christian" activist who does not typically write about gay issues - is he even gay?) spent as much time actually DOING SOMETHING about this perceived "bias" instead of whining about it he might learn something.

    An impressive analysis of that linked opinion piece. I concur completely.
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    Jun 06, 2017 6:45 PM GMT
    DrobUA said
    Yea the article has literally no facts and extremely misguided opinions. Since when is the Los Angeles LGBT center a "White run institution" and the ten freeway divides "white LA and black/brown LA"? Since when is la segregated? Gay bars are unwelcoming to black patrons? Evidence being... I live in LA and I have seen no signs of any of this. It's a melting pot and the author is just trying to start shit

    I don't know LA. But I do know where I live, in south Florida.

    I see mixed race couples, both gay & lesbian, every day. I've attended their (now) legal weddings, as I mentioned above.

    But I'ill tell yah, I don't see that many Black and Asian guys or gals in gay clubs or other places. I guess it's their choice, perhaps their cultural background or something. Because they'd be welcome in any place that we go. But maybe they see it differently. I can't put myself in their shoes.
  • metta

    Posts: 54489

    Jun 06, 2017 7:08 PM GMT
    WoodyTheH saidI truly believe that the "gay community" is white and racist.

    Here is the entire piece:

    http://religiondispatches.org/when-a-pride-march-means-owning-the-shame-of-racial-and-economic-injustice/


    Your comment does not make sense to me. The gay community is a very diverse community, possibly one of the most diverse communities. Trying to judge the gay community by areas within a couple cities is not accurate.

    As for the title, I would have preferred:
    When a Pride March Means Owning the Shame of (Acknowledging) Racial and Economic Injustice

    There is racial and economic injustice throughout society. It is important to recognize that, not just pretend it does not exist.

    I don't go to gay bars and I don't know anything about Andrew Sullivan so I don't really have an opinion on that. But I am thankful that I live in a place (Los Angeles County) with a lot of diversity and I grew up in a family with a lot of diversity.
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    Jun 06, 2017 10:30 PM GMT
    metta said
    I don't go to gay bars and I don't know anything about Andrew Sullivan so I don't really have an opinion on that. But I am thankful that I live in a place (Los Angeles County) with a lot of diversity and I grew up in a family with a lot of diversity.

    We're very out & about in our gay community. But like you have no knowledge of Andrew Sullivan.

    My family also had diversity, even in the 1950s. My Father would take me to Black-owner diners, near his supermarket. He loved diners.

    And he wasn't "Mr. Steve" in those places, nor I "Master Robert", that was used elsewhere during that era. It was all first name basis, all equals.

    Years later as an adult I asked my Father about that. He told me it was deliberate. We lived in a community that had no Blacks at all. Not formally restricted, but you hadda have money to live there. At that time few minorities did.

    My Dad didn't want me to become elite and prejudiced, as he told me. Nor did my Mother; she was very stern with me on that. "Robert, remember you are no better than anyone else." That was drilled into me. So Dad took me to Black-owned diners, and other places where I would have contact with minorities I wouldn't otherwise.

    My parents' own social circle was very diverse, but no Blacks. Because Blacks didn't live in our community. So my Dad took me to them. For the 1950s he was really remarkable. Perhaps his tactics are laughable today, but unless you lived during that era, I don't think you would really understand.
  • bro4bro

    Posts: 3899

    Jun 06, 2017 11:03 PM GMT
    DrobUA saidYea the article has literally no facts and extremely misguided opinions. Since when is the Los Angeles LGBT center a "White run institution" and the ten freeway divides "white LA and black/brown LA"? Since when is la segregated? Gay bars are unwelcoming to black patrons? Evidence being... I live in LA and I have seen no signs of any of this. It's a melting pot and the author is just trying to start shit


    Absolutely. When I go out in West Hollywood I see all races represented, and mixing seamlessly. I have no idea what the author is talking about - and apparently neither does he.
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    Jun 06, 2017 11:48 PM GMT
    Plooje saidFunny how it's all the white guys squealing here about it.

    wow. u r so wrong. i'm mixed latino, ass
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    Jun 07, 2017 1:22 AM GMT
    Plooje said
    livstud2001 said
    Plooje saidFunny how it's all the white guys squealing here about it.

    wow. u r so wrong. i'm mixed latino, ass


    Sorry, no such thing. Don't you remember from the Trayvon Martin case that latinos are WHITE?

    Keep up with the times.

    wow. fuckoff
  • metta

    Posts: 54489

    Jun 07, 2017 4:18 AM GMT
    art_deco said
    metta said
    I don't go to gay bars and I don't know anything about Andrew Sullivan so I don't really have an opinion on that. But I am thankful that I live in a place (Los Angeles County) with a lot of diversity and I grew up in a family with a lot of diversity.

    We're very out & about in our gay community. But like you have no knowledge of Andrew Sullivan.

    My family also had diversity, even in the 1950s. My Father would take me to Black-owner diners, near his supermarket. He loved diners.



    That's great! But what I mean is my own family is diverse. I'm biracial. My family has Asian, Black, Caucasian, Latino, and even partially Native American backgrounds. The only one we don't have yet are Aborigines, not to mention we have gay, straight, and lesbian. My Uncle and cousin are Black. My Uncle has been married to my Aunt for 53 years as of this year. So I have known nothing but diversity my entire life. My family is probably what people that belong to the KKK fear the most. icon_wink.gif

    Oh, and I'm very out...I just don't do gay events very often. I don't really have anything against them. I used to like to do stuff like that with my best friend but he died 12 years ago. And it just did not interest me to go without him. I don't drink alcohol. I have done a couple things in the last 12 years...but not very often since he died. I went to one parade to help a friend with a float. I have been to gay days at Disneyland once. Oh, and I helped a friend with the first gay prom in this area a few months ago.
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    Jun 07, 2017 5:00 AM GMT
    LOL at a thread full of white/almost-white guys wondering where all the racism is, as if they would notice the bartender at every club not serving everyone around them first.

    Article is probably over-the-top SJW echo chamber stuff, but the general idea that gay culture is particularly racist is pretty hard to deny.

    Diversity doesn't mean equality - as evidenced by how uniquely diverse intergenerational gay couples seem to be looool *pukes*
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    Jun 07, 2017 5:43 AM GMT
    DrobUA saidYea the article has literally no facts and extremely misguided opinions. Since when is the Los Angeles LGBT center a "White run institution" and the ten freeway divides "white LA and black/brown LA"? Since when is la segregated? Gay bars are unwelcoming to black patrons? Evidence being... I live in LA and I have seen no signs of any of this. It's a melting pot and the author is just trying to start shit


    The Los Angeles zoning codes were made and still used for segregation. That's why it's housing is different compared to places like San Francisco and New York City. Other American cities did use zoning like that too though.
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    Jun 07, 2017 2:47 PM GMT
    hentailover saidLOL at a thread full of white/almost-white guys wondering where all the racism is, as if they would notice the bartender at every club not serving everyone around them first.

    Article is probably over-the-top SJW echo chamber stuff, but the general idea that gay culture is particularly racist is pretty hard to deny.

    Diversity doesn't mean equality - as evidenced by how uniquely diverse intergenerational gay couples seem to be looool *pukes*


    'almost white'? Surely you aren't referring to myself, who identifies as 'mixed'? Because if you do, it looks like my block/ignore button is going to get more use today. And, I should like to point out that none of the posters (like the misguided gentleman I quoted) actually live in the San Francisco Bay Area (where I live), so if there is racism in our community, I 100% guarantee it's not in this area.
  • bro4bro

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    Jun 07, 2017 3:41 PM GMT
    Diabro said
    The Los Angeles zoning codes were made and still used for segregation. That's why it's housing is different compared to places like San Francisco and New York City. Other American cities did use zoning like that too though.


    I have no idea what you're talking about.

    The Beach Boys grew up in Hawthorne, California, which in the 1950s and 60s was very white. Now it's predominantly Latino and black. Inglewood was known as a largely Jewish community when my mother lived there in the 40s. Now it's famously known as "Inglehood". How are the zoning codes "still used for segregation"? Are you somehow suggesting there's a part of LA where (name your favorite racial epithet) are not welcome, and are excluded as a matter of public policy? I'd sure like to hear a concrete example of that!

    Housing is different in LA than in San Francisco and New York because LA has available real estate, allowing for urban sprawl. On the San Francisco peninsula and Manhattan Island, development is quite obviously limited by geography, so they had to build up instead of out.
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    Jun 07, 2017 7:37 PM GMT
    bro4bro said
    Diabro said
    The Los Angeles zoning codes were made and still used for segregation. That's why it's housing is different compared to places like San Francisco and New York City. Other American cities did use zoning like that too though.


    I have no idea what you're talking about.

    The Beach Boys grew up in Hawthorne, California, which in the 1950s and 60s was very white. Now it's predominantly Latino and black. Inglewood was known as a largely Jewish community when my mother lived there in the 40s. Now it's famously known as "Inglehood". How are the zoning codes "still used for segregation"? Are you somehow suggesting there's a part of LA where (name your favorite racial epithet) are not welcome, and are excluded as a matter of public policy? I'd sure like to hear a concrete example of that!

    Housing is different in LA than in San Francisco and New York because LA has available real estate, allowing for urban sprawl. On the San Francisco peninsula and Manhattan Island, development is quite obviously limited by geography, so they had to build up instead of out.


    Those cities are predominantly Latino and black is because once they start living or moving near there, housing starts getting cheaper because it deters the white buyers. And the zoning laws used back then are still used today, like the huge minimum lot sizes. LA has a lot of land, but little housing per area. But they are revamping their zoning codes soon.

    This article explains some of it.
    https://www.kcet.org/history-society/a-southern-california-dream-deferred-racial-covenants-in-los-angeles
  • bro4bro

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    Jun 07, 2017 10:53 PM GMT
    Huge minimum lot sizes? Ha! Somebody hasn't spent much time in LA!

    The lot my house sits on is 30 feet by 50 feet. That's smaller than a volleyball court. And it's been the standard size in my community since the 1950s. My next door neighbors are literally 6 feet away on each side.

    The migration of whites out of places like Hawthorne and Inglewood had less to do with Latinos and blacks moving in, and more to do with the construction of a freeway system that enabled them to buy a house in the burbs on a sizeable piece of land, and still make the daily commute into the city.

    Still waiting to hear about the institutionalized segregation...
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    Jun 07, 2017 11:22 PM GMT
    bro4bro saidHuge minimum lot sizes? Ha! Somebody hasn't spent much time in LA!

    The lot my house sits on is 30 feet by 50 feet. That's smaller than a volleyball court. And it's been the standard size in my community since the 1950s. My next door neighbors are literally 6 feet away on each side.

    The migration of whites out of places like Hawthorne and Inglewood had less to do with Latinos and blacks moving in, and more to do with the construction of a freeway system that enabled them to buy a house in the burbs on a sizeable piece of land, and still make the daily commute into the city.

    Still waiting to hear about the institutionalized segregation...


    You're not going to Bro...so. much. bullshit.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 22713

    Jun 07, 2017 11:42 PM GMT
    I don't know anything about Los Angeles, but I do know from my experience in gay communities in Austin, Houston, Baton Rouge, Buffalo, and in numerous smaller cities like Lake Charles LA, I have noticed that both white and Hispanic gay men tend to hang out with each other and that there is an absence of black gay men. It seems like black gays are pushed aside and ignored for the most part. I have even overheard many white and Hispanic gay men use the derogatory N word and say that they don't trust them "damned blacks". So there is racism in the gay community just like in the mainstream. So this is not necessarily bullshit, in fact a lot of it is true.

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    Jun 08, 2017 3:43 AM GMT
    bro4bro saidHuge minimum lot sizes? Ha! Somebody hasn't spent much time in LA!

    The lot my house sits on is 30 feet by 50 feet. That's smaller than a volleyball court. And it's been the standard size in my community since the 1950s. My next door neighbors are literally 6 feet away on each side.

    The migration of whites out of places like Hawthorne and Inglewood had less to do with Latinos and blacks moving in, and more to do with the construction of a freeway system that enabled them to buy a house in the burbs on a sizeable piece of land, and still make the daily commute into the city.

    Still waiting to hear about the institutionalized segregation...


    Ok. You win. No institutional segregation.

    Changing the subject a little, most restrictive zoning started in 1962. Pre-1962 homes were grandfathered in. Those neighborhoods or cities tend to be nice and expensive but you don't need a car to get anywhere. I'm going to guess that if that neighborhood were built about 10 years later, meaning new, it would be illegal.

    Edited: Well currently, it's a minimum of 4000 sq ft. That's more than 2.5 times your current lot. So if someone decide to merge 2 1500 sq ft lot to 3000 sq ft, they wouldn't be able to do it. It'll be possible to merge 3 lots, but it's not possible to split it unless it's 8000 sq ft.
  • bifocaled

    Posts: 308

    Jun 08, 2017 4:52 AM GMT
    PennsyGuy said
    hentailover saidLOL at a thread full of white/almost-white guys wondering where all the racism is, as if they would notice the bartender at every club not serving everyone around them first.

    Article is probably over-the-top SJW echo chamber stuff, but the general idea that gay culture is particularly racist is pretty hard to deny.

    Diversity doesn't mean equality - as evidenced by how uniquely diverse intergenerational gay couples seem to be looool *pukes*


    Good points.


    Agreed. Straight liberal kids on college campuses complaining about "micro-aggressions" would have their minds blown if they spent any time in the gay scene.