The pickiness paradox

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  Feb 21, 2009 4:59 AM GMT

  Hello everyone,
  
  I think there's a prejudice that attractive people are pickier* than the ones who are less attractive, but I think it's quite the opposite: the less attractive you are, the more exclusive you become. Let me explain it and see if you agree.
  
  First of all, a preference is not picky on its own, it depends on the group on which the choice is made, for example: John lives in a country full of brunette men. Conveniently, he prefers them. John's preference is not picky there. John then moves to a country where most men are blond. John still prefers brunettes. John is now picky.
  
  A preference that was once inclusive became exclusive just by moving to a different location. Besides location, the person who's picking can also make a preference more or less picky.
  
  For example: Paul is very attractive, while Carl is not so attractive. Initially they have the same basic requirement: "I'm looking for a gay man". With this same preference, they both end up with the same group. Now the move on to the second basic requirement: "He must find me attractive". Now Paul ends up with a larger group. Carl has a small group to chose on.
  
  Coming from the less attractive one, this requirement of consensuality is way more exclusive. He is the picky one here, not because he made an exorbitant, fussy requirement, but because this requirement came from him. The attractive one, even after a million other requirements, may still end up with a larger group. One who spends 90 bucks of his 100 dollar account if more prodigal than one who spends 100K dollars of his multi-billion dollar fortune.
  
  So, when I judge my pickiness, I don't consider just my preferences, but who am I to make them. I just wish I weren't so picky...
  
  
  
  *In the sense of being more exclusive, not necessarily fussy

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  Feb 21, 2009 5:14 AM GMT

  

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  Feb 21, 2009 5:48 AM GMT

  Psychology 101?

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  Feb 21, 2009 5:50 AM GMT

  That post made little sense to me. But I like your torso. I'd hit it

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  Feb 21, 2009 6:01 AM GMT

  nobody's ugly after two oclock in the morning

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  Feb 21, 2009 6:06 AM GMT

  dakuk saidnobody's ugly after two oclock in the morning

  
  
  Last call dramatically improves everyone's attractiveness.

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  Feb 21, 2009 6:53 AM GMT

  
  
  Well, that was interesting, but I'd have to say that this ""He must find me attractive" is pretty well a constant in the formation of a lover-relationship.
  
  This means to me that "He is the picky one here, not because he made an exorbitant, fussy requirement, but because this requirement came from him."
  doesn't really apply. How does anyone start a relationship when one finds the other unattractive?
  
  -Doug

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  Feb 21, 2009 7:17 AM GMT

  This thread is a paradox, wrapped in an enigma, intertwined in an anomaly, served with a side of french fries.
  
  In summary..
  
  "Not-so-attractive" guys have standards too.
  
  

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  Feb 21, 2009 7:20 AM GMT

  bachian saidHello everyone,
  
  I think there's a prejudice that attractive people are pickier* than the ones who are less attractive, but I think it's quite the opposite: the less attractive you are, the more exclusive you become. Let me explain it and see if you agree.
  
  First of all, a preference is not picky on its own, it depends on the group on which the choice is made, for example: John lives in a country full of brunette men. Conveniently, he prefers them. John's preference is not picky there. John then moves to a country where most men are blond. John still prefers brunettes. John is now picky.
  
  A preference that was once inclusive became exclusive just by moving to a different location. Besides location, the person who's picking can also make a preference more or less picky.
  
  For example: Paul is very attractive, while Carl is not so attractive. Initially they have the same basic requirement: "I'm looking for a gay man". With this same preference, they both end up with the same group. Now the move on to the second basic requirement: "He must find me attractive". Now Paul ends up with a larger group. Carl has a small group to chose on.
  
  Coming from the less attractive one, this requirement of consensuality is way more exclusive. He is the picky one here, not because he made an exorbitant, fussy requirement, but because this requirement came from him. The attractive one, even after a million other requirements, may still end up with a larger group. One who spends 90 bucks of his 100 dollar account if more prodigal than one who spends 100K dollars of his multi-billion dollar fortune.
  
  So, when I judge my pickiness, I don't consider just my preferences, but who am I to make them. I just wish I weren't so picky...
  
  
  
  *In the sense of being more exclusive, not necessarily fussy

  
  
  
  STOP trying to reason your pickiness and just give whoever a chance. If there is a spark, it works; if not, move on.

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  Feb 21, 2009 7:28 AM GMT

  GuerrillaSodomite said

  dakuk saidnobody's ugly after two oclock in the morning

  
  
  Last call dramatically improves everyone's attractiveness.

  
  
  Not when the bar lights come on....You gotta get out of there before that.

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  Feb 21, 2009 7:45 AM GMT

  TheIStrat saidThat post made little sense to me. But I like your torso. I'd hit it

  
  
  LOL. I understand THAT line of thinking at least.

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  Feb 21, 2009 5:03 PM GMT

  meninlove said
  
  Well, that was interesting, but I'd have to say that this ""He must find me attractive" is pretty well a constant in the formation of a lover-relationship.
  
  This means to me that "He is the picky one here, not because he made an exorbitant, fussy requirement, but because this requirement came from him."
  doesn't really apply. How does anyone start a relationship when one finds the other unattractive?
  
  -Doug

  
  
  Yes... I agree... but it's a requirement like any other... I think it's important to consider as such because it defines how exclusive are gonna be the preferences that follow it.
  
  I have a friend who has very "high" standards, and he still manages to be less exclusive than I am. How can that be if my preferences are way more down to earth? This is why I'm aiming for 187lbs: I wanna be inclusive!

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  Feb 21, 2009 5:37 PM GMT

  Everyone has standards and some people just have crazy high ones.
  
  The "unattractive" people even have standards and some of theirs are even worse then a regular attractive person's.
  
  Some people just need to get unstuck from themselves and live.

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  Feb 21, 2009 5:40 PM GMT

  Guy101 said
  
  The "unattractive" people even have standards and some of theirs are even worse then a regular attractive person's.

  
  
  This is proof that the law of the universe is one of irony...

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  Feb 21, 2009 5:51 PM GMT

  i always thought that "unattractive" ppl were around to make attractive ppl look better by comparison on days the the pretty person is having an "off" day
  

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  Feb 21, 2009 7:03 PM GMT

  The OP is very hard to follow, but I get that you are adding more variables in the mix.
  My two cents is that it doesn't matter how attractive you are or think you are,
  different people have different characteristics and standards of what they like.... period.

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  Feb 21, 2009 8:13 PM GMT

  Guy101 saidEveryone has standards and some people just have crazy high ones.
  
  The "unattractive" people even have standards and some of theirs are even worse then a regular attractive person's.
  
  Some people just need to get unstuck from themselves and live.

  
  
  The point I'm trying to make follows the analogy of the spender: spending 100K dollars isn't too much if you have many billions, but spending 8 bucks is a lot if you just have 10... actually, anything is big spending if you just have 10 bucks.
  
  If someone doesn't want to be a spender... he must spend less, or get richer.

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  Feb 21, 2009 9:18 PM GMT

  bachian saidFor example: Paul is very attractive, while Carl is not so attractive. Initially they have the same basic requirement: "I'm looking for a gay man". With this same preference, they both end up with the same group. Now the move on to the second basic requirement: "He must find me attractive". Now Paul ends up with a larger group. Carl has a small group to chose on.
  
  Coming from the less attractive one, this requirement of consensuality is way more exclusive. He is the picky one here, not because he made an exorbitant, fussy requirement, but because this requirement came from him.
  
  *In the sense of being more exclusive, not necessarily fussy

  
  
  I think it would be wise for you to not call this "pickiness", since your verbal linguistics leave some of us feeling that you are simply trying to rationalize your own pickiness.
  
  Essentially, it sounds like you are saying that less attractive people are more "picky" because they search for a mate in a smaller population (i.e. those who are attracted to the less attractive). However, I would argue that the "requirement of consensuality" is one that (as meninlove explained) is universal (i.e. it does not, as you assert, "come from him" but rather from the laws of the universe).
  
  So, in your very 1-dimensional example, Carl is not more picky. Carl is probably open to dating Paul. Paul is probably not interested in Carl due to his lesser attractiveness. Paul is more picky.

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  Feb 21, 2009 9:35 PM GMT

  Being picky....That's interesting..I read that when a woman selects a partner, she actually just looks for someone that will be good to breed with,to have strong healthy off spring, it's an innate instinct apparently.
  
  If you just assume that this is correct. Then what underlying instinct would we look for, when it comes to finding a partner, since two men can't procreate?

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  Feb 21, 2009 9:40 PM GMT

  bachian said

  Guy101 said
  
  Some people just need to get unstuck from themselves and live.

  
  
  The point I'm trying to make follows the analogy of the spender: spending 100K dollars isn't too much if you have many billions, but spending 8 bucks is a lot if you just have 10... actually, anything is big spending if you just have 10 bucks.
  
  If someone doesn't want to be a spender... he must spend less, or get richer.

  
  
  
  
  This makes no sense though.
  
  Preferences are not analogous to currency that can be exchanged for relationships. Love is extremely dynamic, and you do not simply look at a checklist when you are deciding to pursue a relationship with someone. If you do, you are socially retarded. Long-term compatability (and short-term interest) depends on far more than what characteristics people have. They depend on how those characteristics interact with each other.

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  Feb 22, 2009 5:48 AM GMT

  joggerva saidEssentially, it sounds like you are saying that less attractive people are more "picky" because they search for a mate in a smaller population (i.e. those who are attracted to the less attractive). However, I would argue that the "requirement of consensuality" is one that (as meninlove explained) is universal (i.e. it does not, as you assert, "come from him" but rather from the laws of the universe).

  
  
  Ok, I agree it's universal, but it filters like any other requirement. A filter you may not control, but determines how exclusive your choices are going to be.
  
  

  joggerva saidSo, in your very 1-dimensional example, Carl is not more picky. Carl is probably open to dating Paul. Paul is probably not interested in Carl due to his lesser attractiveness. Paul is more picky.

  
  
  Is Paul picky because of one rejection? The numbers are on his side: even after many requirements, the numbers are so favorable for him that he still manages to reject less.
  
  

  joggerva saidI think it would be wise for you to not call this "pickiness", since your verbal linguistics leave some of us feeling that you are simply trying to rationalize your own pickiness.

  
  
  Do you think I would go this far if it weren't personal?
  
  When mutual attraction is rare, I start wondering if my standards are too high. But they aren't... (since when are average weight guys rare?) If they are so scarce in my "selection group", I would be probably less exclusive if this group were larger. Shyness, location, unpopularity... many things diminish this group and make my preferences more exclusive. I'm doing everything within my means to increase it, but it takes a hell of a patience...

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  Feb 22, 2009 6:23 AM GMT

  styrgan said
  This makes no sense though.
  
  Preferences are not analogous to currency that can be exchanged for relationships. Love is extremely dynamic, and you do not simply look at a checklist when you are deciding to pursue a relationship with someone. If you do, you are socially retarded. Long-term compatability (and short-term interest) depends on far more than what characteristics people have. They depend on how those characteristics interact with each other.

  
  
  I used wealth in the analogy in comparison to attractiveness or popularity. I don't say it buys you a good relationship, but gives you more power to find one. I wouldn't stand my narcissist, blood-sucking ex-bf if it were easy to find someone else.
  
  I agree with you on the nature of love, it's not a check-list, and it's very important how our characteristics interact, but would you care about literature or quantum physics if you were worried about your next meal?

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  Feb 22, 2009 1:54 PM GMT

  bachian said

  styrgan said
  This makes no sense though.
  
  Preferences are not analogous to currency that can be exchanged for relationships. Love is extremely dynamic, and you do not simply look at a checklist when you are deciding to pursue a relationship with someone. If you do, you are socially retarded. Long-term compatability (and short-term interest) depends on far more than what characteristics people have. They depend on how those characteristics interact with each other.

  
  
  I used wealth in the analogy in comparison to attractiveness or popularity. I don't say it buys you a good relationship, but gives you more power to find one. I wouldn't stand my narcissist, blood-sucking ex-bf if it were easy to find someone else.
  

  
  
  The other reason curency is not a good metaphor is that there is no exchange. You can date one guy. You can date five guys. You can put all your eggs in one losing basket or not pay until you're convinced it's what you want.
  
  If you settle for one that treats you like crap, then you have in effect "paid" and you can't now complain that the world is an unfair place.

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  Feb 22, 2009 8:03 PM GMT

  bachian said

  joggerva saidSo, in your very 1-dimensional example, Carl is not more picky. Carl is probably open to dating Paul. Paul is probably not interested in Carl due to his lesser attractiveness. Paul is more picky.

  
  
  Is Paul picky because of one rejection? The numbers are on his side: even after many requirements, the numbers are so favorable for him that he still manages to reject less.
  
  

  joggerva saidI think it would be wise for you to not call this "pickiness", since your verbal linguistics leave some of us feeling that you are simply trying to rationalize your own pickiness.

  
  
  Do you think I would go this far if it weren't personal?
  

  
  
  Ick. "Verbal linguistics" - I hate when I'm thinking of a phrase that could be worded two ways, and I mess up and choose one word from each. I meant either "verbal acrobatics" or "linguistic acrobatics". "Verbal linguistics" is rather redundant and didn't make the point I meant to make. D'oh!
  
  Anyway.
  
  My point was that I would not define "pickiness" as having a small group of potential mates. I would define it as choosing to limit one's group of potential mates. By the way, I'm not saying pickiness is necessarily a bad thing, but it can certainly be taken too far.
  
  I never said Paul was picky just for excluding Carl - I said he was more picky than Carl (I wouldn't label someone as picky for one exclusion - I'd have to see how often Paul rejects potential mates and by what criteria). What I meant was that what kept Paul and Carl apart was the decision by Paul to exclude Carl.

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  Feb 22, 2009 8:10 PM GMT

  mmmm. dont agree
  
  

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