Ok, I have an idea to put in your heads

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 14, 2007 2:32 AM GMT
    The forum post "Schwarzenegger's Veto" got me thinking and I have decided to share this thought, which I have had for a while now, with all of you.

    I want to get married. Legally. (Course, I need to find him first) But right now' we "aren't full people." You all know that we can't get married. I am sure that there are some, or many, guys on here that have found the man of their dreams and want to get married. (Not gonna lie, I'm jealous) I want you to get married as much as I want to get married.

    You see, we are considered a minority. Paraphrased, the people that wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights said that a minority that is being oppressed by the government has the right to march and take it over. Granted the minority can’t fully take over, that minority can force change. They also said that the Government cannot and will not mix the church and the state together. All of the reasons why we can’t get married are because they call it an "un-holy" union.

    –Let us take a second, shall we?–
    One: Divorce is supposed to un-holy. To get a divorce is legal. In fact, it seems that the divorce rate is higher than the marriage rate. Hmm?
    Two: Yes there is passage in the Bible that says "any man that lies with another man shall be put to death." But it was said by only one guy. I don't remember if it was the same guy or not but someone said that "any man who lies with a girl after her first period that be put to death." Sounds over half the world has sinned a sin that requires death . . . even those law makers. And, to go with this, some guy even said that "any man who lies with a goat shall be put to death." Hmm?
    Third: I am a devout Christian. Nothing can bend or change that. When I find my man, I am going to love him and only him. There will be no adultery on my part and (if he is really my man) there will none on his part. I will not even look lustfully at another man, just him. I know that there are a lot of other guys out there that think the same. God created love and did not make any part of it defined or an exact science. Therefore, any love, as long as it is true, is real and blessed in His eyes.
    Fourth: COME ON!!!! Who is the government to define and interpret God’s words?
    –Ok, that was more than a second. Oh well.–

    You see, there has to be something done. A little PRISM meeting that talks about things they can do won't make much of an impact. A little march that has naked people or a sea of color will get very little to no serious consideration. I'm not saying condemn them, but I am saying we need a more serious approach. As much as I would like to be the Gay version of Martin Luther King Jr., I know that I don't have what it takes. (Maybe I could be the gay "Rosa Parks" . . . or . . . ;) the gay MLK Jr.'s husband) We need to band together and take this on seriously to get any recognition. Real marches, real rallies, and real attempts to be heard are what we need.

    When I find my man, we are getting married, even if some witchy lesbian has to wave a stick over our heads. (Name That Show!!)

    Ok, so this song started playing on my iPOD while I was writing this and it is really fitting.
    - Come So Far (Got So Far To Go)
    So shine that light
    Take my hand
    And let's dance into tomorrow land
    'Cause . . .
    I know we've Come So Far
    But we've Got So Far To Go
    I know the road seems long
    But it won't be long till it's
    time to go
    So, most days we'll take it fast
    And some nights we'll take it slow
    I know we've Come So Far
    Oh but baby, baby
    We've Got So Far To Go

    I love you all and I just thought I would get this thought out to all of you and into your heads.

    P.S. Now, if I disappear or write a retraction, that means I was taken away, liquidated, and replaced. ;)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 14, 2007 4:19 AM GMT
    Keep to yourself... do I look like I care? icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 14, 2007 5:59 AM GMT
    No, you don't look like you care. But you also look like you don't matter.
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Oct 14, 2007 9:13 PM GMT

    I'm with you. Your post is very well put. I totally agree with you.

    In fact I agree with both your posts.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 15, 2007 2:19 PM GMT
    I think you have food poisoning.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 15, 2007 3:13 PM GMT
    Let's play "Spot the Troll!"
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 18, 2007 8:40 AM GMT
    I'm not religious but just did some research on a bible passage that said you can only eat fish with fins and scales.

    So for those of you eating shrimp and lobster, you are not a real christians eaither and should be put to death. Gay or straight.

    That pretty much sums it up for me. It's about interpretation.

    As for our country, there is no ambiguity. There is a separation between church and state and that is what this country was founded on so everyone should stop quoting the bible, torah, koran, or any other religious text out there, including what the pope says to make their point.

    As for marriage, my brother recently got married for the second time. He's had a vasectomy so they have no intention of having children, and they are not going to adopt children either.

    So, if the purpose of marriage is to go out and procreate, according to the bible, then why can they get married.

    Enough said. I think this topic is ridiculous in terms of dealing with it politically or religiously. The bible is a hypocritical text when it is in the hands of the wrong people.

    Live and let live, get over it, and as long as nobody is getting hurt, people should just stop worrying about it and let whomever get married that wants to get married.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 20, 2007 8:56 PM GMT
    Didn't you just come out to your family and yourself a few weeks ago @ Disney? now you're a gay rights activist? No one knew you were gay...umm... and you knew nothing about the scene?

    I'm with Onixitto, only it's not food.
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    Oct 20, 2007 11:33 PM GMT
    He's 19 cut him some slack. He wrote it at 10:32 PM on a Saturday. He could have been high or drunk and just got really inspired (in that special kind of way). Besides, there is nothing wrong with what the OP said he just said we need to organize. The good thing is organizations already exist. TiggerHeight, if you want to learn more or get involved check out HRC (human rights campaign).
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Oct 21, 2007 12:46 AM GMT
    Is there a little bit of jealousy hereicon_question.gif

    It looks like it to meicon_confused.gif

    It's late. I will think about it and reply further tomorrow.
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Oct 21, 2007 2:11 PM GMT
    Well I got some sleep and honestly I don't know if it is jealousy or not.


    What are you talking about?

    I am not surprised you are with Onixitto. Both of you can only come up with one liners as replies, with an insult thrown in that are not very smart and make no since.

    Just because the guy has just come out, does not mean he can not have views. It does not mean he has no right to marry, or want his country to allow him to marry.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 21, 2007 10:46 PM GMT
    Ok, um wow. I never thought that something I wrote to get us some rights and to be "Pro Moe" would give me so much shit and just get me bashed down. I don’t even know what to say. Thank you Mike. I think thank you owl. To the rest of you, I don’t even know if I want to condone what you all say with any kind of response.

    Even when I was closeted, I stood up for gay rights. I stood up for gays against my father that came across as a HUGE homophobe (but it all changed when I came out), my dad's side of the family that is Mexican Catholic and very homophobic, and many other people. It does not matter that I just came out. The fact is that I simply was not being honest to myself and the world. I led a gay life and a semi gay rights activist's life way before I came out, I just wore a suffocating mask the entire time.

    I have never been truly straight a day in my life. I thought that coming out would open a whole new world to me and I would be in a state of peaceful freedom. I joined this site just to meet real gay people and to maybe make friends. So far, people like Mike, Alex, Rocco, Sirkyous, love_jocks, and a handful of others seem to be the only ones worth while. The rest of you, I do not even know how to define you. You come across as such self centered, "high and mighty" snobs. If you are all there is out there anymore, no wonder we are thought of as "sinners" and snooty jack asses. Putting up with you in real life would be enough to make me want to go straight. The rest of you I have yet to be introduced to.

    I have a lot of stressors and crap going on in my life, just like everyone else. Forgive me for wanting things to be better for everyone. I will just have to train and practice real hard to become a self centered priss.

    If this offended any one, oh well. I would say I am sorry but it would be a lie. A few bombs have been dropped on me recently and it is so much easier to explode and let off the steam to the likes of you since I have no idea who you are and you obviously have no idea who I am.

    :Bitching Over And Out:
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    Oct 22, 2007 1:35 AM GMT
    I'd suggest editing out the above rant. There a 80,000 guys on RJ and you're making a comment about only a handful being positiveicon_question.gif

    I suggest you get a personal journal and when you get stressed out, write generalized social invective in your personal journal rather than on a public forum. There are real people out here you are talking about.

    As for your original point about Gay marriage - I think you want a Ford Mustang but your asking for a Model-T.

    Marriage is an invention from ages past - a social contract that had mostly to do with property and social status. Divorce is such a high rate because our society views marriage as a tool to assist in emotional fulfillment. The state does not care if you know or even like the person you are marrying, so the laws that govern who marries who have more to do with gender than love. They aren't written to protect the ideal of marital blissful love.

    By comparison, there is a Department of Health that requires you know and follow very strict guidelines to opening a restaurant. Codes have to be followed and inspections passed before you can even open the doors to do something so innocuous as serve salad. There's no Department of Marriage, no training, no guidelines.
    Yet any chump of age 18 who can sign their name can surrender their financial independence, property ownership, and even rights over their personal body to a complete stranger.

    Marriage is a state enforced contract which is considered a fundamental building block of our society. Yet state-run education systems' curriculum's are completely devoid of classes or training on how to select a mate, what the benefits or not of marriage are in society, strategies for dealing with financial conflict, etc. You're left on your own - sink or swim.

    We don't need a MLK jr for gay marriage advocacy - we need an Eli Whiteney to 'invent a new contract' coupled with an FDR to give us the "New Deal" when it comes to gov't support for the new way. That would involve booting current definitions and guidelines for marriage off the books.

    I don't think there will be enough social strife on the subject of marriages to cause a polital shift that would empower our fictitious FDR to push out 'old marriage' and bring in the 'new'. The real FDR had the depression and WWII as catalysts. We don't have anything of that magnitude currently.

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    Oct 22, 2007 4:24 AM GMT
    Ok ok.

    As far as a one liner.. I thought that was a pretty complete sentence that conveyed a lot of thought in few select words.


    Owl- funny.

    MikePhil- His post about coming out is gone. You should have read it then you might understand my POV.

    OH- Exactly everything I needed to say.

    To address all this focusing on the views of someone and gay marriage issue. We are dealing with a very young gentleman in a Disney-like fairytale dream world.

    We were all just coming out at one time & we all were looking for love kiddo - a lot of guys still are. Everyone during every moment of their life is trying to figure everything out. You're not the only one who doesn't know how the world works. You're new to the whole "I'm out and gay world" and a lot of other things. You have only looked into the pond of what the gay sea is and are a long long swim to the ocean of adulthood and experience. You live in AZ and you cannot even goto a liquor establishment, so I know you have not yet even been to a club.

    I understand you want everyone to be happy and lala, but it is never going to happen. Not with gays or straights. With such little knowledge and experience you're not very credible. You're also only repeating things that have been said.

    So my suggestion: Chill out. Count to 10 extremely slowly. You just came out. It is a new world and you need to fit into it, it wont adjust to you. Live life and do not worry about trying to figure it all out. Stop using the forums on RJ to vent. Get some friends Gay and Straight - girls work best & talk to them about these things. You need to know that kids your age and generation are going though the same stuff and those are the people who can help you best. Personally and face to face.

    I believe: You are looking to much into connecting with a fake world, here online. You like a few guys on here b/c they treat you nice and offer mentor ship, when you should be with kids your own age discussing these topics. (((Like that group at school where you thought that everyone was a queen)) There are a lot of us who think you're "crazy". It is OK, but it's just he impression I get and with an educated guess, probably many others.

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    Oct 22, 2007 4:45 AM GMT
    onstagebuffnaked, what kids his age are you talking about, you're his age icon_razz.gif And Onixitto is pretty close too. While the older more experienced people don't seem to have a problem with it so um.. yeah.

    Yeah, his first post is a bit of a rehash of what everyone else already knows, and idealistic in nature, but I think discussing it with people who are equally inexperienced is worse than talking to a forum with a wide range of ages and opinions.
  • trebor965

    Posts: 200

    Oct 22, 2007 6:41 AM GMT
    awesome. seriously.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 22, 2007 10:41 AM GMT
    onstage, I think you're forgetting what's its like to come out. I think given the new found sense of freedom that comes with it, it's only natural for someone to have these kinds of aspirations. I can't say that I didn't have them and to a degree I still do. There's nothing wrong with that and he was just sharing his thoughts with us. Being a general forum, I'm not sure where he went wrong. If you didn't care for it, you probably should've moved on to the next topic. My mom always said "Keep it clean or keep it quiet." Meaning if you don't have anything nice to say...etc.

    But I'll bite on his topic. I went to this past SLDN annual dinner and I was pretty happy about the turnout. There were alot of big wigs there from all over the military both gay and straight. Even got to say hi to Betty, Cybil Sheppard, Pam Grier, and that chick who plays Tasha from the L Word. But that seemed to be the highlight of the evening. It was my first activist function and I'll definetly go again next year but I gotta say, I expected more. There hasn't been alot of action aside from the few trials that are going on right now (which will probably go on for a while). And it was apparent in the speeches that they knew it too. Alot of talk about how things should be, and how we hope one day will come, but nothing about what we did that made a huge impact or anything of the sort. But hey I'm keeping my hopes up that one day things will change and we can all live happily ever after. I don't believe in fairy tale endings, but I'm not gonna step on someone who does. I wish I had that kind of attitude, it would make my life a whole lot easier. Besides, I hardly think MLK or Rosa Parks were anywhere near Disney. Now, Malcom X? Oh yeah, total Disney. You just know he wanted to break out into song with his magical talking hairpic in the middle of an LA riot.
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Oct 22, 2007 10:37 PM GMT
    I'd suggest editing out the above rant. There a 80,000 guys on RJ and you're making a comment about only a handful being positive

    I suggest you get a personal journal and when you get stressed out, write generalized social invective in your personal journal rather than on a public forum. There are real people out here you are talking about.

    I think Tigger is just referring to the guys that have been negative with him and the ones that insulted him. I don't believe he means everyone here on realjock.

    onstagebuffnakedMikePhil- His post about coming out is gone. You should have read it then you might understand my POV

    Well I didn't see it, but did Tiger insult anyone in his post? Personally I don't believe he would have, so why should you or anyone else insult himicon_question.gif I don't know what his coming out story was, but everyones is different and for some (like me) it can be very difficult.

    You talk about him as if he were a child. He is not, he is a man, and you are not much older.

    I can not see anything wrong with he post here, and I agree with him. I have found my man and I want to marry him. It is not a fairytale as some of you suggest. It could very well be possible and I am sure it will be one day. So laugh and make fun and insult if you have too. It just shows the kind of person you are.