Viruses

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 09, 2020 6:03 PM GMT
    Don't you ever wonder about viruses? How did they become so complex and genial ? I mean look at hiv virus for example, it has specific receptors to attach to the cell, to get into the cell and then to make the cell reproduce more viruses from genetic code and then those new viruses get out of the cell. How? Virus supposedly is only a large molecule, which is not even considered alive, what's the point ? why do viruses even reproduce if they are not alive and have zero intelligence? And how it is even possible that such non living things are so complex to do all of that to human body and cells ?
  • stemkin

    Posts: 217

    Jul 11, 2020 1:27 AM GMT
    All of evolution is pretty much random shit happening and if it's beneficial, it'll be successful. That's how we came into existence, and same goes for viruses. It'll start with some very very basic building block and over time it'll acquire random mutations, and some of them will be deleterious and immediately fail, whereas others will by chance bring the organism some kind of survival advantage and be passed on to the next generation. Say you have some shitty virus that would never survive in a fight against the human immune system, but over millions of years it randomly mutates and this tiny change allows the virus to evade our immune system (for example, one building block of the virus that would normally be recognized by our immune cells changes slightly, just enough so that we cant detect it anymore), and bam, the virus can reproduce like crazy and suddenly you have millions of those things with that very same mutation, and then that game just repeats itself.
    What im saying is, there's not necessarily a need for intelligence or complexity, as all of evolution is driven purely by random changes, some of which just so happen to bring an advantage.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2020 1:32 AM GMT
    stemkin saidAll of evolution is pretty much random shit happening and if it's beneficial, it'll be successful. That's how we came into existence, and same goes for viruses. It'll start with some very very basic building block and over time it'll acquire random mutations, and some of them will be deleterious and immediately fail, whereas others will by chance bring the organism some kind of survival advantage and be passed on to the next generation. Say you have some shitty virus that would never survive in a fight against the human immune system, but over millions of years it randomly mutates and this tiny change allows the virus to evade our immune system (for example, one building block of the virus that would normally be recognized by our immune cells changes slightly, just enough so that we cant detect it anymore), and bam, the virus can reproduce like crazy and suddenly you have millions of those things with that very same mutation, and then that game just repeats itself.
    What im saying is, there's not necessarily a need for intelligence or complexity, as all of evolution is driven purely by random changes, some of which just so happen to bring an advantage.


    beneficial how? if virus is not alive and there is no intelligence , what is the purpose to try to reproduce, who makes that decision that some parts are beneficial and worth keeping and some are not.
  • stemkin

    Posts: 217

    Jul 14, 2020 4:44 AM GMT
    Selective pressure does. Beneficial means the virus (or any organism) has a survival/reproductive advantage. For example, bacteria will randomly acquire mutations that make them resistant to antibiotics, or mutations that make them grow faster or allow them to utilize different sources of energy. As a result, they'll survive better than their non-mutated competition. There's still no purpose or intention here, and no intelligence or conscience needed, it's all due to random mutations.
    Now that the virus has acquired this mutation and can reproduce better than the others, after a while you'll have more of this mutated virus compared to the non-mutated one, so the population changed into one that is fitter. If a mutation had negative effects, the virus would perform poorly and thus not get a chance to pass on the deleterious mutation enough to for it to actually become established in the population.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 14, 2020 4:59 AM GMT
    stemkin saidSelective pressure does. Beneficial means the virus (or any organism) has a survival/reproductive advantage. For example, bacteria will randomly acquire mutations that make them resistant to antibiotics, or mutations that make them grow faster or allow them to utilize different sources of energy. As a result, they'll survive better than their non-mutated competition. There's still no purpose or intention here, and no intelligence or conscience needed, it's all due to random mutations.
    Now that the virus has acquired this mutation and can reproduce better than the others, after a while you'll have more of this mutated virus compared to the non-mutated one, so the population changed into one that is fitter. If a mutation had negative effects, the virus would perform poorly and thus not get a chance to pass on the deleterious mutation enough to for it to actually become established in the population.



    How do you know? Maybe viruses think and are smarter than you? Just joking. Good, detailed responses, I appreciate that.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 14, 2020 3:57 PM GMT