Government spending

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    Mar 18, 2009 12:31 PM GMT
    I'm not sure who exactly denied he was black...
    His accomplishments are overwhelming, however, both before and after assuming the presidency. Did you even read the list I mentioned? Closing Guantanamo, ending Bush's tax cuts and other unfair breaks for the rich at the expense of the poor, opening up stem cell research, instituting greater safeguards for the environment, ending our disastrous abstinence-only approach to the AIDS problem in Africa, increasing funding for schools and health care programs, and most importantly, taking steps to fix the economy that go beyond the failed republican response of deregulating and further lining the pockets of millionaires. The reality is his achievements have been remarkable; but as I mentioned, unfortunately there will always be those who willfully ignore reality because it doesn't support their beliefs and prejudices

    Yeah, those are things I would be proud of. His achievements have been NOTHING, all talk so far, nothing.

    God, it sounds like people who do well will be the target of you and Obama. Make a living, make some money, get ahead in life, and you and Obama will tax them. God forbid you have success, cause you will tax them to achieve your social goals. Yes, America should take care of Africa, but no wait, that is interfering in another country like we did in Iraq? We are not supposed to interfer with other countries!!!!
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    Mar 18, 2009 12:34 PM GMT
    WE are not supposed to interfer in other countries!!! Iraq, Darfur, ect, Otherwise we are just the big bad USA interfering!!!
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    Mar 18, 2009 12:39 PM GMT
    Even though history shows that every tax cut to the "wealthy" increases the total wealth to government. From Woodrow Wilson to Kennedy to Reagan shows that tax cuts to the wealthy increase the money to the general fund. But Damn history, and real numbers, lets just hold on to our bitterness about them versus us.
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    Mar 18, 2009 12:52 PM GMT
    There are equally valid (and I mean equally not better) studies that show that tax cuts only minimally increase general funding. Especially in a recession.
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    Mar 18, 2009 12:56 PM GMT
    If I puke a bit I will try to swallow it. I just read this:

    His accomplishments are overwhelming, however, both before and after assuming the presidency. Did you even read the list I mentioned? Closing Guantanamo, ending Bush's tax cuts and other unfair breaks for the rich at the expense of the poor, opening up stem cell research, instituting greater safeguards for the environment, ending our disastrous abstinence-only approach to the AIDS problem in Africa, increasing funding for schools and health care programs, and most importantly, taking steps to fix the economy that go beyond the failed republican response of deregulating and further lining the pockets of millionaires. The reality is his achievements have been remarkable; but as I mentioned, unfortunately there will always be those who willfully ignore reality because it doesn't support their beliefs and prejudices.


    Damn, we did not even need to elect him. His mere presense has changed the world. No more AIDS, no more poor, no more Rich People......what an idiot.....

    Very liberal: Rich people, or as a like to say people that worked hard and achieved something in life: BAD!!!!!

    Tax cuts: Bad!!!! Tax achievers!!!!!

    Close Guantanamo!!!!!! Were we put them? Who knows? Berkeley? Why not? Let them house the "unhoused sorta problem makers"

    Increased fighting HIV in Africa? Well, we are not supposed to get involved in other countries. It is not our place. We are not supposed to tell them how to run their countries. That is Imperialism. We should avoid being big brother like Iraq.

    Stay out of the business markets? Like when Clinton said we should make home ownership a priority and told the fed and Fanny May and Freddie Mac to give loans to people that were not qualified?

    Yeah, Bush sucked.
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    Mar 18, 2009 12:58 PM GMT
    Why does tax cuts only go to the wealthy? Because the top 15% of tax payers account for 70% of tax revenue. They should get the cuts. As far as big spending by the govt. Just look at how well Social Security, Medicaid and the Great Society programs have been handled.
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    Mar 18, 2009 12:59 PM GMT
    I love the world of OBAMA!!!! lol Let's see what he does with it.
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    Mar 18, 2009 1:04 PM GMT
    Do you have a specific question or concern you genuinely want addressed or are you just ranting?
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    Mar 18, 2009 1:11 PM GMT
    Tax cuts only nominally affect the general income? Wilson, Kennedy, Reagan. Look at the numbers. Tax rates went down, income went up.

    I always wonder. When we raised the taxes on tobacco in California, everyone of my liberal friends said it was good because the smokers would smoke less. Now I say, OK, we are raising the tax on the higher income earners? Will it not have the same effect? You tax, people do what ever is taxed less. Is that science?

    Is that a Harvard thing? Tax more, people do less. Tax achievers, they will work less. Tax smokers, they will smoke less. According to liberals.
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    Mar 18, 2009 1:14 PM GMT
    Munch- I am just raving because you cant keep up with me. But if you want, give it a try?
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    Mar 18, 2009 1:18 PM GMT
    Let's go munch- what do you have to say? If nothing, that is cool also....
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    Mar 18, 2009 1:59 PM GMT
    Triggerman saidI love the world of OBAMA!!!! lol Let's see what he does with it.


    The country can't afford to find out.
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    Mar 18, 2009 2:19 PM GMT
    I just ask if you have anything specific because you are bringing up at lot of stuff.

    Some of the stuff you have brought up in this thread:

    Saying Obama, like Hitler, is a great orator.
    Regressive taxation
    The Iraq war
    Infrastructure vs tax breaks in the stimulus
    Politics and government
    Foreign policy
    Race


    That is a lot of things. Which makes me ask if you are really looking for discussion or just letting of steam. The administration is not perfect, and some anger is in order. The way Geitner has performed so far is concerning. The way he is handling civil rights with regard to terrorist suspects needs improvement. I think the stimulus package was inadequate.

    This sounds like a rant. If so, rant away.
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    Mar 18, 2009 2:30 PM GMT
    jprichva saidActually, that is a complete lie.

    What statistics really show is that income goes UP when tax rates were highest (marginal top rates under Eisenhower were 90%), and DOWN when tax rates are cut (lowest tax collections, adjusted for population under Bush the Younger).

    Supply-side economics is not just stupid, it is proven stupid. And its believers---the half-dozen of you still out there--are kool-aid drinking morons.


    Quote the specific source of those statistics. The unrefutable fact is the greatest expanisons of economic acitivty have occurred when tax rates have been lowered, and govt spending was at it's lowest relative to total GDP.
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    Mar 18, 2009 2:30 PM GMT
    In an attempt to put a POSITIVE SPIN on all of this. I was recently contacted by a head hunter who was looking for qualified people. He has a firm here in the Kansas City area that says they will need 3-6 people very soon. They firm is waiting for the stimulus money to hit the state and distributed to the building project that are ready.

    This means it the money is going to work in the way intended. that soon this money will start to put people back to work. This is but one example I am seeing. No no plan would be perfect. Any plan that was put out there would be critized. However with this small bit of news I personally got to hear I am sure things will soon turn around and put some of the millions of unempolyed back to work.
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    Mar 18, 2009 2:36 PM GMT
    Munching-

    I am rarely putting off steam.

    I covered a large amount.

    Address as you fit to

    God love ya

    JW
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    Mar 18, 2009 2:39 PM GMT
    houstonmuscle10 saidQuote the specific source of those statistics. The unrefutable fact is the greatest expanisons of economic acitivty have occurred when tax rates have been lowered, and govt spending was at it's lowest relative to total GDP.


    By the same token pleas cite your statistics as well.
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    Mar 18, 2009 2:49 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie said
    houstonmuscle10 saidQuote the specific source of those statistics. The unrefutable fact is the greatest expanisons of economic acitivty have occurred when tax rates have been lowered, and govt spending was at it's lowest relative to total GDP.


    By the same token pleas cite your statistics as well.


    US Department of Commerce - Bureau of Economic Analysis

    " Gross Domestic Product"
    "Personal Income"
    "Corporate Profits"
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    Mar 18, 2009 2:50 PM GMT
    This is not a scientific poll by any means, but just a fun one.

    Scroll down on here or any other forum. Look at the "repubs" or conservatives. Maybe some are both. Then look at the demos, maybe some are both. But you can figure which is which. But just take a quick poll in your head, by reading the polls. Who is angry and who is not. I would say 70-30 repubs to angry Demos. Rebubs are trying to talk, demos are angry. Attacking. I find that funny, but it is by no means a scientific poll. I will get attacked for this, but who cares? Really?
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    Mar 18, 2009 2:52 PM GMT
    I'm not attacking. I'm laughing my head off. Oops, there it goes, rolling across the floor. HAHAHAHAHA!
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    Mar 18, 2009 3:05 PM GMT
    Your head rolls of the floor. But you are too afraid to put your own pic on the website. How do I count that? In my own little poll? Do you get a half point? A full point? A half cause you really tried to break down that closet door? A Full because, even though you are hiding in the closet, I want to count your viewpoint? Hmmm? Gonna give you a quarter point. I know you want to come out of that closet, we have all been there, but until you do you should not get all of the benefits of an out guy.

    Have a great day!

    JW
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    Mar 18, 2009 3:13 PM GMT
    Allright, Cowboyway, you have seen some real stimulas. That is all well and good. Who paid the taxes so that that headhunter could come and find someone in your community to give those taxpayers money to??? How do they feel? They just lost those tax dollars. It is a one for one proposition. Someone gets tax relief, bailout, tax money, whatever. But somewhere in the country, someone just got hit with a taxbill to pay for that "Stimulas" money. I am glad that you see the end result. But someone pays for that "stimulus".
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    Mar 18, 2009 3:14 PM GMT
    You wanna give me a hard time for having a good laugh? If you don't want me to laugh, stop posting funny things. Don't blame a guy for having a sense of humor when your own is so clearly on display. Sheesh!
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    Mar 18, 2009 3:17 PM GMT
    There are couple of concerns I have so far with the Obama teams plan of attack.

    1. They are trying to do too much too soon. Don't spend a lot of time on Health care reform right now. If the economic mess is not fixed there won't be the tax revenue to pay for it anyways and political capital needs to focus on the economy;

    2. Raising the highest tax rate on the wealthy is perhaps not the way I would go. I would introduce a consumption tax, and stop tax deductions for mortgage interest payments. Americans need to be weaned off excessive consumption and debt. That is one of the big underlying reasons for the crisis, people and companies became overleveraged.

    Regardless of taxes, the US needs more revenue going forward to pay for the baby boomers. Unless the US wants to start slashing the Defence budget (not likely).

    3. Fix the banking system as soon as possible. It would help if the Treasury Secretary had more help. Supposedly the background checks are taking so long he has no help! If the banking system is broken you can spend til the cows come home and the recession will continue.
    Some banks may have to fail. So be it.

    4. Be realistic about what companies can survive and what companies cannot. Don't prop up companies that are probably going to collapse anyways (e.g. Chrysler). The money would be better spent on training the displaced workers.

    5. Do not engage in protectionism. There is growing and legitimate fear that countries around the world are starting to put up barriers to trade in order to try and prop up employment. The Great Depression turned "great" mainly because of protectionism.

    That is it for starters.

    Remember the guy who wrote about "The End of History" after the cold war ended? Well ever since then we have had too much history!
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    Mar 18, 2009 3:18 PM GMT
    Hey, I am a realist, not an idealist. Laugh you head off. I will too. Obama did not take that money from me, ....yet. He took it from someone else. I have no problem with that.....hey, it ain't me,,,,,,yet.