gays and race

  • Barricade

    Posts: 457

    Oct 26, 2007 2:54 AM GMT

    I dunno, I just hope that whoever reads this can offer me some advice or their opinions, hence the reason for writing it here. But I am finding that alot of non-black guys and I mean like 97%(of the ones I have personally messaged here and on other sites) don't talk to black guys. I mean I try to strike up a conversation(nonsexual) and I get no reply. Even guys who have in their profile they are looking for friends, don't respond. I have read more than a few times about guys preferences of not finding black guys attractive, that's fine, but you can't even talk to me? I don't understand? I don't think I am that hideous! But, if I were blond haired and blue eyed my mailbox would be full !! Are there preconcieved thoughts of what non-black men think of black men? I have always been open about talking about different things. But, how am I gonna meet a guy if all the guys in the world don't find black men attractive. or at least willing to talk. I know I didnt word this the best way. I hope it is at least semi-clear. Let me know guys. icon_question.gificon_question.gificon_cry.gif
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    Oct 26, 2007 3:20 AM GMT
    Hey barricade. I am a black man and trust, youre not the only one who feels like that. It happens all the time. Its like the gay community is ahead in some aspect but in others are further behind than the heteros. You have to look at it as a preference, some guys are just not into blk guys and just take it in stride. Fuck them for missing out. The gay community is segregated and u just have to deal.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16461

    Oct 26, 2007 3:29 AM GMT
    Well let me say I talk to black guys on this site (and you know who you are) and guys of any race. I've chatted with guys from the middle east on RJ, from Slovakia, from India, from Sweden, from South Africa, from Mexico, from Peru, England, Scotland, etc.
    I've talked to black guys on other sites as well.
    I find no preference in conversation based on race in any way.
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    Oct 26, 2007 3:48 AM GMT
    Chuckle -

    Try being of mixed race.

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    Oct 26, 2007 4:08 AM GMT
    Mmm maybe you should checkout there hotlist and see who's on there before you message them.If it's all white maybe that should tell you something. I do try to start conversations myself with some guys and get no response but as the saying goes."I'm not meant for everybody and everybody ain't meant for me"

    So don't worry about not getting game here. I'm sure outside this website you are probably doing pretty well.

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    Oct 26, 2007 4:16 AM GMT
    Uh, this is probably more about people not replying to random mails. I typically reply to everyone personally, but a lot of people won't reply to random messages, and a lot of people don't even check their profiles.
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    Oct 26, 2007 4:28 AM GMT
    Barricade, as AbbottBryboi also stated; you are not alone. There are many guys who won't engage us in a friendship, let alone date a black guy. And that's okay. Many black guys don't want to date white guys. So it's all good.

    But let's call the racism spade for what it is, and not coat it in the term "preference". Preference implies something along the lines that someone has tried apples and has also tried oranges. The apples were alright BUT he liked the taste of the oranges better.
    THAT'S a preference.

    With the race issue, many guys haven't even tried dating a black guy. I was even told once by a guy that the idea was repugnant to him.
    THAT'S racism, not a preference.
    Big difference.

    Personally, I'm pretty EEOC and can appreciate whatever someone brings to the table, regardless of race.
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    Oct 26, 2007 4:45 AM GMT
    And, just for the record, even if you were blond and blue your mailbox isn't full and guys still don't respond. A friend in NYC was so excited because he was dating a "buddhist monk" (quotations intended) and I asked him why is was so excited. He said, "monks are very hot right now". I said, "when are blond hair blue eyed southern boys hot?" He replied, "you had your turn. Right after black guys with british accents."

    All depends on what's in vogue.
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    Oct 26, 2007 4:51 AM GMT
    People who think black men aren't hot need to check out Omarion
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    Oct 26, 2007 5:00 AM GMT
    Maybe the people that don't respond have the preference to not like black people, and they don't respond so that they won't have to tell the black person that he doesn't dig blacks. I guess some people just don't want to be rude and say, "im not attracted to your skin color." or something.
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    Oct 26, 2007 5:06 AM GMT
    If I may add a perspective here, I don't think I would term physcial attractiveness and sexual chemistry as "racist". I mean for me, I say never say never to most anything but, in general, the men I date (whether I do the asking or they do) tend to be white. It is not anything I specifically seek to do and I have plenty of friends that run the gamut of black, latino, asian, mixed, etc., but when it comes to physical chemistry with someone and what "turns me on" per se....that tends to be white men between 21 and 45, under 6', in shape, with a positive attitude and a good sense of humor.

    There are definitely black men here in LA that I would go on a date with and I know of two specifically that, if they were single, I'd be attracted to them and go on a date with them. People are turned on by what they are turned on by. I'm sure there are plenty of men that don't find me that attractive for whatever reason, and it's really not important as to why....they just don't. Would I consider it racist if it was because I was!

    When it comes to a lot of things in this world, I think there are definite racism issues to be dealt with and no one should be judged by the color of their skin as to what kind of person they are or if they are worthy of jobs, housing, fair treatment under the law, etc. I'm just not sure that with respect to mutual attraction between two people, a "preference" (and by the way, bigguysf, I agree with your definition of preference as being something you've actually tried, compared and made an informed choice about) for black vs. latino vs. white vs. asian vs. indian vs. whatever, really can't be classified the same way as hating someone just because they happened to be, or not be, of a certain race.

    Just my thoughts......icon_exclaim.gif

    Oh, and by the way, Barricade, your posting speaks to the idea that non-black men won't return your messages or chat with you. Does that infer that you are specifically seeking to contact non-black men? Do you date black men? Do they respond to you when you contact them?
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    Oct 26, 2007 5:10 AM GMT
    ^ Its easy for you to say that because you fall into the "preferred race" shortnsexy. Don't talk about things you don't know about or understand. This problem is legit.
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    Oct 26, 2007 5:19 AM GMT
    Hey Barricade, I totally feel you on your thread. I think we all have had the same experiance but the difference with me is, I have several non-black guys that I have on my buddy list here that I talk to on a regular basis. I think it all boils down to chance and timing with some of the guys on here. A good point was made by someone who suggested that you checkout the buddy or hot list of the guy, which is something I have done in the past when I wasn't all that sure about a guys "Preferance". Some guys are just jerks about this sort of thing. I live in Chicago, I run a gay mens book group in Boys Town, yet there plenty of times I don't feel welcome there. There are black men out there who don't want to date or talk to other black men, so there are people who feel that way about race on both sides of the fence black and non-black. Don't let the guys you are trying to talk to and don't respond back get you down about this site. It's actually a really cool site with some really cool guys.

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    Oct 26, 2007 6:07 AM GMT
    barricade...i think u r cute! icon_wink.gif
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    Oct 26, 2007 6:29 AM GMT
    QUOTEWith the race issue, many guys haven't even tried dating a black guy. I was even told once by a guy that the idea was repugnant to him.

    Interesting quote. I'm fairly pale compared to most other white people and often times people don't find me attractive because of it. But I guess it's only racism if your skin is black icon_razz.gif

    Seriously, I don't need to try a 500 pound man to know I don't find him as attractive as a fit guy at least physically speaking. I don't need to try a tall lanky guy to know I don't like him anywhere near as much as a shorter thicker guy. But if it's skin color I should have to try it first? icon_rolleyes.gif There's plenty of hot black guys, but my preferences lie toward the paler, short, thick, and non-smooth type of guy. Screw the whole tall, dark, and handsome thing, those dudes aren't my type! icon_lol.gif

    This isn't to say that there isn't racism. Of course there is. But some points need to be made here:
    1. The 'prefered' race as someone put it isn't the only racist one. Theres tons of blacks, asians (yes, I know this includes many races, don't preach at me icon_razz.gif), or whatever other races you want who are racist too. Plenty who would reject a white guy.
    2. Many of the guys calling 'racism' are beginning to sound like the boy who cried wolf. Careful, because pretty soon no one will be listening, even when it's legit.

  • cacti

    Posts: 273

    Oct 26, 2007 6:31 AM GMT
    While I'm sure there are plenty of racist roots in some guys' reasoning for dating or not-dating certain races, you can't really say that not being attracted to someone because of a physical characteristic(like skin color) is racist. That would be the equivalent to calling a straight guy a homophobe because he's not attracted to you.

    That said, I would never try to justify a person's actions(like not talking to someone or judging their character) purely based on race.
  • 2thTEE

    Posts: 637

    Oct 26, 2007 6:47 AM GMT
    Different strokes for different folks.
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    Oct 26, 2007 6:49 AM GMT
    Preference is often a convenient loophole. There are of course preferences, but preferences are not neutral, and while some of what influences preferences may be inborn, environment obviously affects them as well, and certainly race and issues of race and identity inform our preferences. I don't know that it is necessarily conscious, but if someone only limits their 'preference' to one race or one type, whatever that may be, there is probably something more to it than just looks.

    Well, Barricade, I don't know why most wouldn't respond to you -- I mean at least email you something back. That does seem odd to me, though I find it easier to start a conversation with someone if we have responded to someone on a thread, at least here at RJ, or we have both responded to the thread than just emailing someone out of the blue, or at least the latter takes more work.

    But a good thread that makes us think about what we like and don't like, and how race plays into that and how it affects us today. I'm guessing you've had a similar experience of been burned owl?

    Anyway from someone of the 'preferred race' to whom hot is hot, no matter what the race, well to me, but then the blond/blue eyed is definately not my end all.
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    Oct 26, 2007 7:03 AM GMT
    I love black guys. Yum. I dated one for 12 years.
  • blackberry78

    Posts: 9

    Oct 26, 2007 7:24 AM GMT
    I have to put my two centz in this.

    Barricade you brought up a interesting point and someting that I think all men of colour experienced. Honestly you have just have to weed them out and eventually find guys who are attracted to you.

    For me personally (and sorry to go off topic here) but I find I get the two major extremes: a) men who do not find men of colour attractive at all and will avoid any form of conversation with you and then opposite b) guys who are totally into men of colour because of what stereotypes they've seen or heard or what the jacked off to porn sites ( I can't tell you the amount of times I have had white guys message me asking me if I was a top and if myself and my other black muscle friends would gang bang them.)

    I always found it quite odd and hypocritical that the gay community who always wants equality have their own racial prejudices.
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    Oct 26, 2007 7:53 AM GMT
    I feel like this topic is hitting on a couple of issues, all of which are complex and can be hard to separate.

    1. Social networking behavior - this deals with how people interact with each other on sites like these. If you look at the real world, there are numerous examples of social norms of etiquette and countless occasions of people breaking them with good intentions (a friend doesn't return a call because he's sick, the call was a sensitive one that required thought in the response, ...). Because the internet is so new, conventions are even less apparent. Where else in the real world is it possible to look at over 80,000 faces around the world and decide you want to talk to them. Is someone obligated to respond to every mail he receives and to what depth before being considered rude? I'm definitely not hitting all the problems of this issue because this is a phenomena that many of friends are getting their PhDs studying about and an issue that always comes up on forums such as these.

    2. Racial factors in individual and social preferences - I'm going to get personal here and talk about some of my own preferences and experiences.

    I find white people most attractive; no surprise given media portrayals of who handsome men mostly are in our society. For the longest time, it bugged me that I didn't find all races equally attractive. I felt racist and became angry that media and my upbringing made me racist. As much as I hate to say it, a good number of Chinese parents draw their children closer when they see black people around, including mine. When I got old enough, I would wail at them accusing them of being racist.

    So I think there are definitely clear cut cases of racism, but I guess the point I wanted to make above is that it also sneaks into various facets of our lives from various environmental factors such as upbringing and media. I feel like my notions of beauty and what turns me on is very white culture centric, and for better or for worse, that's who I've come to be.

    I once heard a talk (it's bugging me that I can't remember by who ... maybe it was Ted Koppel ...), where I was asked to imagine walking into a room full of white people and then imagine walking into the same room except that the white people were now black and to imagine if I would feel any differently. Maybe I'm not saying anything new here, but it was a powerful thought of how much social baggage we carry around from social reputation.
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    Oct 26, 2007 10:05 AM GMT
    i'm probably the wrong person to comment on this as i've had two relationships with black guys. i certainly didn't seek them out because they were black, it just happened that way.

    i tell you in england black and mixed race men are very popular and i mean very! if you go to any gay bar in london it's pretty much like voting day at the un. so i guess it's not such a big issue.

    however, i think i experienced a similar problem when i came to visit my black boyfriend in new york. i got a decidedly frosty reception from his friends who had assumed i would be black given that my name is darryl!
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    Oct 26, 2007 10:37 AM GMT

    I understand you. As a fellow Asian , it really sorta a norm to find white people attractive. It not only all those invasion of western movie , handsome actor and beautiful ladys of the West that attracted us, but even our own culture glorified people of lighter complexion and higher noses . Just come over here in Asia from India to Indonesia to Philipines all them famous actor and actress have European features.

    Historically lighter skin people than to be noblemen and the darker one peasant working the field.

    As for Blackberry comment on white guys perception of black guys as sexual object. How can they dont, after hearing such perception with all this message we heard about black guys (how large he is, how aggresive in bed they can be). Just like we Asian are contanstly assume to have small dick and suppose to be submissive.

    Personally I have been with all kinda of race, most of them Asian , but a few white and black guys when I was in college.
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    Oct 26, 2007 12:16 PM GMT
    People who exclude other races/ethnicities and call it a "preference" might benefit from asking how their preference was formed. It just so happens that it reiterates racism in the general culture.

    It wasn't so long ago, in the Civil Rights era, when you heard the same kind of thing in a more general way. "I have nothing against black people, but I'd rather socialize with my own kind. It's not racism, it's just my preference." Stores posted signs that said they "reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."

    I'm not suggesting that the adoption of a racist value is conscious. But I do know that it's a very simple matter to transcend your preference.

    Oh, and comparing body type to skin color is absurd for obvious reasons.
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    Oct 26, 2007 1:02 PM GMT
    I think people tend to be a little over sensitive with the race card. Saying that not dating black guys is racism and not preference because someone has never tried dating a black guy is an illogical statement. To know who one is attracted to physically all they have to do is look at a person, and I don't know many people who have only looked at white people in their lives.

    I admit to having a preference for white guy, but I also have a preferences for Hispanic and sometimes middle eastern men. I have never dated a black guy (I went on two dates with a guy who was half black), but this does not mean that I never would, it just means that I have not found many black men who I find attractive, and I didnt have to date them to figure that out. Personally I think BIGGUYSF is hot, but hes a little old for me and lives hella far away. I personally have never dated an asian guy and probably never will, because I simply do not find them very attractive physically, and I am not just talking about body here. This does not make me racist it means I have a preference (I have looked and not found anything that I liked).

    I am not denying that there is no racism in the gay community, but I do think some of it is self seregation. Additionally not responding to messages on a social networkign site doesn't necessarily make someone racist because you are black. I personally rarely respond to a message that says Hi your hot, unless the person lives in the same city as me. Its a nice message to get but I dont feel it necessitates a reply. alot has to do with what you are putting in your messae and geographic location. my likelihood of response also corelates directly to the amount of work that I have to do on any given day.

    Have you messaged black guys and find they rarely respond too?