Animal Rights & Spirituality?

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    Nov 02, 2007 3:50 PM GMT
    Since these threads explode so quickly [like my undersized jeans in high school (ba-dump ching!)], I haven't read everything. I am not a vegetarian, but I will not eat meat unless it is farm raised. And although I have to put faith in them that they are ethically harvesting their animals and whatnot, I feel much better with the realization that these animals actually get to live before they are slaughtered. Factory farms are abhorrent because they take life and make it into a product, which is an egregious sin to me. There has to be some happy medium where we respect animals because they die so we can live.

    But being a vegan!? Come on! My mom never missed her unfertilized eggs, so I am sure the chickens feel the same.
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    Nov 02, 2007 4:27 PM GMT
    I would be a vegan, but I enjoy the man-meat too much!

    (Aw, come on... someone had to type it!)
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    Nov 03, 2007 12:58 AM GMT
    sicko, vegans don't eat eggs not because we regards eggs as a form of life. it is the fact that battery caged hens suffer enormously and it takes 100 hours of suffering to create 1 egg.

    http://www.hsus.org/farm/camp/nbe/
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    Nov 03, 2007 12:58 AM GMT
    Goveg.com
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    Nov 03, 2007 1:11 AM GMT
    As long as we watch for disease who cares about how we treat animals raised for food?

    Perhaps we should raise cattle on free open ranges then mow them down like this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5Ev19NsDQ4

    We are going to kill and eat them. Why build a luxury hotel for people on death row?
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    Nov 03, 2007 1:41 AM GMT
    I would like to point out that Hippie was pretty much the first person to divulge from the intended point of this thread

    Hippie4lyfeWhy can we not use the same logic and apply that to eating meat, horrible for the animals and our health.


    That said eating meat has nothing to do with spirituality for me. the first time I saw a chicken get its head cut off I was 3, and it was either my aunt or my grandmother that did it. Can I just tell you that was some fresh chicken!! I know my father killed a pig in the basement of my family's home before I was born, and when I was about 14 my dad had an entire pig delivered to the house which he then proceeded to cut up into nice sumptuous little pieces (and that says a lot coming from a guy who does not really like pork all that much).

    I don't believe in religion and spirituality doesnt mean that much to me. I went to catholic high school, a private non religious college and am now in a jewish affiliated law school. I have seen plenty of religion and spirituality in my day and it all seems to be a crock to me.

    and back to my hippie quote. I would debate both statements.

    Horrible for the animals?

    Not necessarily. going on the post by the very vegan Fryblock, most of the things that happen to these animals is done for their own good. Is it possible to raise animals in a more humane way yes, but then again would the animals even exist in the number they do if not for the industry? I understand we don't want to abuse farming but that speaks more to the current farming practices than to the idea of eating animals.

    Horrible for health?

    This is also highly debateable. The body can produce its own cholesterol so not eating meat doesnt mean you wont have high cholesterol or suffer a heart attack. My father had a heart attack, and he eats any kind of meat you can put in front of him from pig tongue/ear/hoof to chicken feet and brains. I have also sat down to cow udder with him. You know what the doctor told him after his heart attack, the only thing he had to change in his life was to quit smoking (seems like a plant is leading to worse health effects here). It can even be argued that being vegetarian or vegan is worse for you because you are not likely getting all of the nutrients that you need. Yes we read that b12 can be found on plants but is not consumed that way because we wash plants to remove bacteria prior to eating (I ask how is this any different from cooking meat to remove bacteria?)

    on to another point and fabulous hippie quote
    hippie4lyfeFirst off when animals hunt for food they immediately eat their prey and only take what they need.

    We use animals for food (more than we need), fashion, animal testing, and entertainment.


    Are you trying to argue that it is better when an animal kills a poor defenseless animal and then leaves half the carcass as opposed to when we kill an animal and use all of it. You can be damned sure that none of that cow meat or pig is going to waste. where do you think sausage and hot dog comes from?
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    Nov 03, 2007 1:56 AM GMT
    chungo I do not see how I have "divulged" from the purpose of the thread. Animal rights and Spirituality are very personal to my life and many I know.

    I feel as though I am more spiritually connected and have better karma because I am a vegan. I also feel health, nutrition, ethics, are all combined in spirituality. You are welcome to disagree. But please do not disparage my faith or belief system.
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    Nov 03, 2007 2:01 AM GMT
    To go back to your topic:

    Animals don't perform rituals or displays of faith in some deity. Neither do they have spirituality. They just exist, and live to please their urges and/or mate.

    How can someone feel "spiritual" in connection to animals who clearly do not have feelings aside from primal self driven desires.

    We'd be better off just like the animals, putting aside all the useless displays of spirituality and ritual. Then we can claim a connection.
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    Nov 03, 2007 2:16 AM GMT
    in all these repeat threads....what is it you guys are getting from it? (both veggies and Meat eaters)

    I mean, it's all the same stuff being thrown around haha....just none of my input (well, i guess till now)
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    Nov 03, 2007 2:22 AM GMT
    Because someone started a topic?

    The topic is animals and spirituality as the title says. Learn to read.
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    Nov 03, 2007 2:22 AM GMT
    trance-

    animals have social connections and raise families. They even get jealous and a lot are helpful to humans...like what is going on with dolphins in Japan....dolphins and wales are some of the most friendly to humans in the world. I mean there are accounts of them helping people lost at sea find land. Or what about what is happening with elephants...Their children are being hunted...and what are they doing in response...they are storming villages and killing human children.

    you can't talk to them with your language, but they communicate and they exist. Why are humans the only beings in the world given souls? I mean, how else can they love each other and their human companions if all there is is instinct.

    It's hard to swallow.
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    Nov 03, 2007 2:24 AM GMT
    woah trance-

    calm it...truce kiddo, jesus. Yeah i read the topic, but even you had to bring it back to the original topic not, 3 comments above my first.
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    Nov 03, 2007 2:28 AM GMT
    Hippie I was commenting on the fact that you decided that the other topic would be for health issue this one for spirituality and then another for another reason. There was no disparaging of your "faith or belief system"

    If health, nutrition, ethics, are all combined in spirituality then how can you start a topic that is meant to be just about spirituality. there is a flaw in your statement.
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    Nov 03, 2007 2:30 AM GMT
    Sprituality and ethics sort of overlap into lots of threads.

    Souls are what we try to use as a way of warding off fear of the unknown. We tell ourselves there must be life after death because we fear oblivion.

    And well yah animals do raise young and build social groups. Based on instinct and evolution these traits and actions helped them survive. Everything an animal does has some purpose, they don't act out of emotion, only instinct.
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    Nov 03, 2007 2:34 AM GMT
    Well a lot of this stuff does overlap. I am vegan first and foremost for ethical reasons, also for health and environmentalist reasons.

    I am not here to debate you, I am simply looking to engage people who are interested in discussing how animal rights and spirituality are combined in their life.

    I know it is in mine and many others, but I guess that is not the case for you, and that is fine.

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    Nov 03, 2007 2:36 AM GMT
    Trance-

    Well, I will not be the one to argue how you define spirituality...I would however recommend that you just do a little google search on animal miracles and things of that sort.

    Like how pets have saved their owners and all of that. You'll be fascinated. Have you ever looked into the eyes of an animal, really really looked into their eyes. There is something beautiful in the spark you can see.
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    Nov 03, 2007 2:37 AM GMT
    and all I was doing was adding a healthy viewpoint to the discussion.
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    Nov 03, 2007 2:38 AM GMT
    Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

    look at those eyes
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    Nov 03, 2007 2:43 AM GMT
    219322197_f2c7291e6b.jpg

    if you can look into these eyes and see nothing...then there is nothing more to discuss with you
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    Nov 03, 2007 2:45 AM GMT
    I see blue eyes on a tiger.

    Am I supposed to see something more?
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    Nov 03, 2007 2:48 AM GMT
    thats a beautiful cat and that is why i wouldn't eat it. they also happen to be endangered.
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    Nov 03, 2007 2:49 AM GMT
    Fair enough trance.

    I see depth, knowledge, courage and love. I can see it, you don't have too. I respect your opinion.

    for those who do see animals with souls...what animal inspires you most..obviously for me it's tigers....I wouldnt have them tattoo'd on me otherwise. Though I also really like elephants and dolphins too.....eek......too much!

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    Nov 03, 2007 2:50 AM GMT
    chungo I thought this thread wasn't about eating animals??
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    Nov 03, 2007 2:51 AM GMT
    this on the other hand is a beautiful cow Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

    and here is a not so beautiful cow
    Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

    either way its dinner. and if you have ever met catlle they are stupid and dirty.
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    Nov 03, 2007 2:53 AM GMT
    its about animal rights. I think certain animals have the right to be my dinner