• Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2007 6:44 AM GMT
    Just wanted to get some thoughts and opinions on steroid use. When is it okay to use them, if ever? Honestly, even though I've gained muscle in the past few years while working out, it's a very gradual and slow gain. I've been kind of toying with the idea of using them for a long time to help with this process, but I'm not sure the results are worth the risks. Obviously, I have not decided to use them. Soooo feedback, anyone?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2007 3:58 PM GMT
    DONT DO IT!!!. One of my friend(with sexual benefit) was a body builder. He told me during the peak of his career he depend solely on steroids to get big and win contest. This guy say that taking steroid are so addictive that as soon as he got money he will buy more , inject it at his chest and other body part just to get big. The closer to the contest date , the more he injected the stuff. He was constanly broke. To make a matter worst he start having erection problem for a period of six months, to the point his wife start considering divorce. What that he got, just a few worthless trophy
    and who know what else damages to his internal organ.

    As soon as he stop taking it, he start to be normal size and now just a regular overweight guys.It just not worth it.
  • liftordie

    Posts: 823

    Nov 24, 2007 6:56 PM GMT
    blue here is my advice. if you are seriously thinking about it then do it the right way. go to a doctor. preferably a gay one. he wlll be more understanding and receptive as to your reasons for wanting to do a cycle. also he should perform the necessary blood work to make sure that your liver functions are normal and that they stay that way throughout your cycle. he will also monitor your estrogen level as well as test it at the beginning. this eliminates an over dosage of testosterone that might lead to 'roid rage' which in reality is just PMS in men. their estrogen level is high to begin with and the extra estrogen their body creates from taking the steroids just elevates that to a higher level than needed.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2007 9:24 PM GMT
    Well, here comes the misinformation.

    There is a multitude of good information on AAS. I won't and can't cover it all here.

    Here's a real short version: Not the DEA, AMA, NJEM, ACS, AHA, US Army...not one organization...recommended that AAS be controlled. In fact, they all recommended that the remain over the counter, or "legend" drugs at most. That's from the folks in the know.

    There has never been a SINGLE death attributable to AAS.

    The US ARMY has studied this since the 40's and has found only 7 cases where AAS might have been a secondary cause, and not a SINGLE case where there were a primary cause.

    Non C-17 (injectables for the most part) are NOT toxic, at nearly ANY LEVEL. Testosterone is naturally occurring, and hence is not toxic to your system without levels approaching 5000mg per week. 5 to 10 per day would be typical and even the biggest of juiceheads rarely does more than 2000mg, and most folks do around 700mg a week.

    C17 modded orals can be hepa-toxic at high levels, but, not as much as common pain relievers. Apples to apples.

    Roid rage is media fluff. In fact, any geriatric physician can tell you that androgens are mood elevating. Most users would tell you the same thing. The "roid rage" thing was invented as court defense for dumbasses.

    Steroids are those hormones soluble in fats. Women use estrogen for decades to their benefit.

    Your natural testosterone starts declining around 28. As an important part of anti-aging AAS therapy should begin about that time. It will prevent you from several forms of cancer, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, osteoporosis, preserve your lean muscle, heighten your sexual function, lower your BP, lower your cholesterol, and protect your heart, as well as elevate your mood.

    Study after study after study has been done on this and while steroids will always lower cholesterol (it's part of how they work), mortality among heavy steroid users is always less, than a sedentary population. UNT recently did just such a study. What they found is that the heavy users actually have a LOWER mortality than regular people. Suprised? I'm not. It only makes sense that maintaining a healthy lifestyle along the hormones to back it up would lead to lower morality.

    The protocol of choice for the sickest of the sick, is an will likely remain to be for some time yet, AAS. Burns, diabetes, HIV, and most forms of cancer.

    Studies have recently been done that show cholesterol isn't as good an indicator of mortality as visceral vs. non-visceral fat. Considering that several BILLION dollars are being made annually on anti-cholesterol pills (HIGHLY hepa-toxic).

    Any negative effects (low sperm count, HPTA suppression) are transitory. (Male birth control)

    My doctor is a good one, and said nothing destroys your liver and muscle faster than statins (anti-cholesterol pill), and, in fact, threw them in the trash.

    Anti-aging is fast becoming a huge business with grossly over inflated prices. E.g., androgel for $299.00 a month with less raw material than just a couple of shots.

    As someone who has been lifting weights for 33 years, and been an elite athlete almost all of my adult life, I'd highly recommend a fair look at these powerful technologies. Like a good running shoe, a light bike, a sleek suit, stimulants, whatever the technology might be, technology plays a part across the board in sports; has for centuries; will be continue to do use. Whatever technology being used, be it the light bike, or androgens, may suit the sport.

    I'd advise googling on anti-aging. You don't have to be miserable, weak, or non-virile. Most anti-aging right now is high profit, and some doctors are intimidated to giving to low doses.

    Hears a great story from HBO's Real Sports #99, and Bob Klapp:

    I've spent hours talking with both geriatric and non-geriatric doctors about the real benefits of AAS.

    Just last week, at was at the gym. A guy walked over to me and said "How old are you?" I said, "47." He said, "Do you compete?" I said, "yeah." He said, "I bet your numbers are perfect too, huh?" I said, "Yep, except my cholesterol is to low on both sides." He said, "You'd expect that." I said, "Yep. What do you do?" He said, "I'm an ER physician over in Coppell." I said, "Oh. Well, pardon my poddy mouth but do you think I'm fucking up?" He said, "Nope. No way. Look at you. I see fat people all day long." I giggled. I didn't make this up. This actually happened last week at the gym.

    When I was kid, AAS were over the counter. We grow up with them. Somewhere along the line a misinformation campaign, somewhat like "Reefer Madness" got underway.

    The wide range of benefits certainly outweighs the risks, and especially for anyone over 30.

    Technology has always been, and will always be, a part of sport.

    There have been a number of studies done about the typical user: late 20's on up, white, above average income, very health conscious is the typical profile.

    Start with the video. Google on anti-aging. Go to boards like (a huge resource),, and so on. There's so much good information that goes beyond the fluff.

    Here's another study that has been done for decades. 35% of all people, irregardless of how irrational something is, will believe whatever they are told, even though the empirical evidence present otherwise.

    There's big money keeping folks unhealthy. There's big money in keeping anti-aging "exclusive". It's not about health. It's about money.

    With regard to estrogen levels getting to high, there's a 3 whole groups of anti-e's that solve the problem in nothing flat.

    In fact, I was reading that the latest science on prostate cancer is that although testosterone has to be present, high ESTROGEN levels seems to be more of an indicator for prostate cancer. It's when the ratio of test / est gets to where the est is to high that the incidence of prostate cancers goes up. It was some fairly reliable source, but, I'm forgetting where I read it.

    Just as "Reefer Madness" was bullshit, so is much of the current AAS misinformation campaign.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2007 9:41 PM GMT
    bluecaddy17 as far as your stuff goes, I'd say think about what your goals are. If you wanna be a freak, at 5'2", juice your brains out, but, realize that it's like the Dart Vader hood: it only works as long as you keep it on. Honestly, if you have shitty genes, don't eat right, are clueless about how to train, you'll never look like a guy on the from of M & F. By the same token, this technology is everywhere, and it certainly is not as dangerous as many other things. E.g. pain pills, alcohol, tobacco, being overweight.I think you should get everything else tuned in: diet, genes, training method, before considering it. I know...what's the magazine at the front of the magazine rack? M & F, Musclemag. In reality those guys are gifted, and have an entourage coaching them. I.e., they know exactly what they are doing.

    With regard to zakariahzol's comments regarding sexual function, that's because your buddy is an idiot, and had no clue how to keep that from happening, not because AAS are bad.

    Technology is very empowering...The Internet, guns, bikes, clothing, whatever, but, how you use that technology makes all the difference. Part of the issue with driving some technologies underground is that they don't get studied properly, and putting them into the underground only makes them more valuable. In the case of AAS, they have been studied since the 40's and the studies got ignored. However, just a few studies, like that deal with dose levels typical of using athletes. What they are finding out is that even at EXTREME dose levels, any dangers are highly overstated. It's been known for years that any side-effects are typical temporary, and are easily managed.

    The next step in this evolution of technology in sports will be gene manipulation which will build upon AAS. If you're curious about that google on "mystatin inhibitor" and google on "Superbaby."

    Viewing the body as a machine, and tuning it, and your equipment (skates, bike, surfboard, whatever), as a "Real Jock" seems, to me, to make perfect sense. Picking and choosing the technologies, and associating some weird morality to them, to me, seem nuts.

    That's the facts.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2007 10:01 PM GMT
    Do we say Lance won the race because he had the best bikes, and that's not fair? That's cheating!

    No. We don't.

    In fact, Lance won the race because he had the best bike, the best genes, the best coach, the best training, the best of everything in coaching, genes, and technology.

    Did Lance juice? Who knows? If he did, he didn't get caught.

    If I lose a race because I have a clunky old bike, is it fair that I was to poor to buy a bike like Lance's?


    Technology is, and will likely always be, part of being a "Real Jock."
  • EricLA

    Posts: 3462

    Nov 24, 2007 10:04 PM GMT
    I'd say it's not worth it. I see several guys at the gym who are big, but several of them have very noticeable acne issues. Maybe they just happen to have bad skin, but I'd say they've got something else going on. I don't think it's worth all the damage you end up doing to your body. The truth is some bodies aren't meant to be big. You're a very attractive guy as-is. You should leave what you have alone.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2007 10:06 PM GMT
    Ever been to a NASCAR race?

    I have. In the pits.

    You know what happens to the top finishers in a NASCAR race? They have to tear their cars apart, piece by piece, to make sure they hit spec. It's exhaustive but how NASCAR does business.

    Can one do that in sports that involved physical performance in a way different from NASCAR? Probably not, as it's a cat and mouse game. Technology versus technology.

    Perhaps the best answer is to set specs on the physical part and leave the rest alone. It would, in essence, make he game fairer.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2007 11:20 PM GMT
    steroids are only to be used by retarded fags with low self esteem, and guys from long island with plucked eyebrows. Don't do it, THEY ALL LOOK TERRIBLE 2 years later. ALL OF THEM. And yes this means you (if your shaking your head thinking you still look good.) lol
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 25, 2007 3:18 AM GMT
    You make the point, exactly, for anti-aging. There's absolutely no reason to look terrible as you age. That's it, exactly.

    I've talked to a number of doctors over the years.

    A few weeks ago, and I made a post here on RJ about it, I met a guy, 60 years old, who had looked, and felt, like crap for 15 years. He hit the juice, and instantly turned back the clock 20 years. He was raving about it.

    Your point about looking bad, aging quickly, being sick more often, getting diseases of aging, when they could have been avoided is exactly right.

    Who would WANT to age prematurely? Who would want to look like shit?

    Thank you for brining that up. It completely makes the point for anti-aging and hits the nail directly on the head. One does not need to have those diseases, feel like shit; and look like crap. THERE IS A FIX.
  • UVaRob9

    Posts: 282

    Nov 25, 2007 4:10 AM GMT
    What chuckystud said. I've used the milder andro precursors like Superdrol before and have gotten excellent results: muscle gain, increases on all lifts, etc. Anyone who gives you a cautionary tale about their friend's erectile dysfunction or the like never understood that when you've gone on a cycle of exogenous testosterone for 6 or so weeks, your body hasn't been making a lot of it on its own. To get it back into the habit, you have to do a post-cycle treatment. Usually this involves estrogen blockers like tamoxifen, but there are several OTC products that can help you out. As long as you do the research, aren't stupid about your cycles, and have your diet/training right, you can use them safely and effectively. Best of luck, guy.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 25, 2007 4:53 AM GMT
    UVaRob, the DEA has asked Congress for authority to class the precursors, as well, based upon anything that positively impacts endogenous, or exogenous, androgens. What they are asking for is pretty sweeping, and now right in the back door of the "nutrition" business.

    Because this effects a super-huge business, I think there will be a strong lobby against it.

    I.e., they're asking not that the classed substances be hormones that dissolve in lipids that are anabolic (AAS), but anything that positively impacts them. In other words, if it works, they want to be able to put folks in jail for using it.

    Traditionally, that has been the FDA's job, but, now the DEA has asked Congress for that authority.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 25, 2007 5:07 AM GMT
    There seems to be an interesting double standard.

    Women can take estrogen. Anyone can get poison (Botox) placed in their faces to remove facial expression. You can have your face broken up and re-arranged. You can even have implant to effect appearance. However, androgens have become taboo in medicine, but, bigger than ever, in popular culture. Like reefer madness the media has been engaged in a misinformation campaign. To the DEA, and FDA's, credit they have been more truthful, albeit in an alarmist way.

    Performance enhancement has been used since the days of The Greeks. Beauty products? Who knows?

    I think the current legislative view is more about maximizing return to the corporate shareholders than about anything else.

    It'll be interesting to see where it all is 30 years from now. Will they jail someone who injects a substance that is naturally occurring in their body? Hard telling. The Catholics DID chop the heads from folks who said the world was round.

    The world often is almost insane and complete illogicial in what it does.

    Once gene manipulation becomes more common, what then? Myostatin inhibitors will at least double the current muscle mass of most folks.

    One could ask the question whether or not man evolves WITH science, or not?

    Here's a thought to ponder: what if, through genes slices, man could be given gills, and lungs, to live either in the ocean or on land? At that point, we've reinvented a whole species. Now, that same technology, of course, could be used to fix horrible diseases like CP, MS, and so on. Who gets to decide?

    Technology is neither bad, nor good, in itself.

    Cloning is an interesting example of another technology that's taboo in humans, but, not livestock, or plants.

    Deep thoughts.

    It's not as simple as testing for juice. There's way more questions than that.

    I guarantee that sports will be applying science as hard as ever until the end of time. It's natural for a cognizant species to want to evolve itself.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 25, 2007 6:36 AM GMT
    I say to each his own... If you want to juice, then do as was suggested by some of the guys here and do it the right way... by getting everything tuned in and by going through a doctor you can trust... etc... at least that way, you'll have all the bases covered, you'll know (or have people around you that know) exactly what you're doing, and you'll run less of a chance of getting some crap off the street that you have no guarantee is real and no guarantee that it's not contaminated with who knows what... and there's plenty of folks out there willing to sell crap that can do you harm.

    Personally, I prefer to stay as natural as possible. Part of that is because I don't want to be that big... part of it is, since I stopped doing heroin 22 years ago, I have a personal aversion to even taking an aspirin... and the bigger part of it is, I've done this once before the natural way, I know what my body is capable of if I do the work, and I actually enjoy putting that kind of effort into building my body... because when I'm done, I want to be able to say that I built my body myself, with work and proper nutrition. Its just a personal preference, and I like the feeling of accomplishment that comes with it.

    Good luck and be safe, whatever your decision...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 25, 2007 1:38 PM GMT
    Here's a cool read from none other than

    They make basically the same rationale points that I did, albeit more eloquently, with regard to technology and performance.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 25, 2007 5:07 PM GMT
    Some guys really like other guys with bad acne all over their body, small testicles, and manboobs.

    Some don't.

    Choice is yours.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 25, 2007 7:49 PM GMT
    One of the problems with keeping stuff underground is ignorance as with the poster just above this one ('s Laselle post).

    In being around this stuff for 33 years, I've rarely seen acne (some folks JUST get acne), bitch tits (a person does to much without taking the right counter measures), and, of course, gonadal reduction happens temporarily because they aren't being used. In watching all these folks grow older over the years, I've also been able to observe truth. That's why I say to read the studies, rather than a 2:08 fluff piece on TV.

    The person just above demonstrates exactly why it should be set back to how it was before 1991. Of course, it won't be, because there's to much money being made by various parties, but, know that the DEA wants in the business of regulating anything that works (precursors) which gets into the backyard of some big business, so we'll see what happens.

    The current legal policy borders on insane, but, it is what it is. The sports, nutrition, fashion, marketing businesses are all benefactors, and turn the other way. Technology has been a part of sports since ancient times.

    Whether it's bats, bikes, skates, or coffee, technology has been, and will always be, a part of sport.

    If folks stopped watching the WWE, or M & F wasn't at the front of every newsstand, or the hunky guy wasn't on the tv commercial or MTV, then, stuff might change, but, even then, who would want to grow old prematurely, have diseases of aging, and so on, when they are clearly avoidable using these technologies. Even IF every sports league, across the board is able to develop a test, that doesn't change popular culture, nor should it.

    If you see your friends growing older, gracefully, you'll be a little more liberal in your viewpoint on this stuff.

    My prediction is that even with testing, it'll be alive and well. It's simply to big of a part of popular culture, and telling lies doesn't fix that. The biggest example of how that doesn't work is the 40 year war on pot. People are still smoking loads of dope. Another example was prohibition of alcohol. As the current, and next, generation grows older, anti-aging will, and is, becoming a HUGE business. Simply stated: it works. Anytime something works, be it pot, or alcohol, or juice (an juice arguably is good for you), popular culture will find a way to do it. I think, if a test is developed, GH will become more popular, and gene therapy is just around the corner. Folks will use what works.

    To original question of should a skinny 5'2" juice up? Well, my answer is look around. There are legal risks. There are some minute medical risks. You can get ripped off. I suppose it's an individual choice, or at least should be. I don't think folks should be made to age prematurely and not pursue a plan that works, as opposed to doesn't work.

    Folks are allowed to get fat. We don't jail them, and that's way more dangerous than AAS, except are extreme dose levels. Folks are allowed to smoke. Folks are allowed to drink. The insaneness of the current policy is that putting something into your body that naturally exists there; can actually do it good; and perpetuates a healthy lifestyle is amazing. If we're truly concerned about saving LIVES, CLEARLY, we need to outlaw fat folks.

    Time will tell on this. The current legal policy ignores science, and prevents any really open discussion. Sports will test, but, it'll still be there, or many talented athletes may well just walk away because of the testing.

    Science is an adjunct to the body itself. I guess that time will tell. No excuse, though, for the ignorance of above.

    Because this is a sub-culture, reality gets pushed under the bed more often than not. One thing that DOES amaze me is how many teenagers are doing the stuff (or think they are). That never used to be the case when you could get it over the counter.

    I personally feel it would be a lot better out in the open, but, because of the money, power, and jobs, on the line, I don't think that's likely in this decade. That legal policy really speaks to a bigger issue of failed policy. Having 1.5 million folks in jail on any given day, of which about 70% are drug-related seems like it's not working.

    Interestingly, the use of AAS in treatment of HIV+ folks, has done some good science that's shown time and again that even at doses way more than most athletes would use these substances are well tolerated.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 26, 2007 10:15 AM GMT
    The Positive Effects of Testosterone on the Heart
    The Positive Effects of Testosterone on the Heart
    by Doug Kalman MS, RD

    Steroids will cause your kidneys to implode, your heart to blow a ventricle, and your liver to squirt out of your arse, fly across the room, and knock the cat off the futon. We read it on the Internet and saw an after school special about it, so it must be true, right?

    Actually, the more you learn about steroids, the more you come to realize that, like all drugs, there's a difference between their intelligent use and outright abuse. In this article, Doug Kalman takes a look at the effects of Testosterone on the heart. What he found may surprise you.

    Over the years we've all heard the repeated mantra that anabolic steroids are bad for the heart. Some physicians will tell you that gear raises your risk of heart disease by lowering your good cholesterol (HDL) and raising your bad cholesterol (LDL). In fact, as some docs will tell you, steroids are known to even induce cardiac hypertrophy (enlargement of the heart). And since you can't flex your heart in an effort to woo women, who'd want that?

    But, as in every story, there's more than one side. In fact, let it be said, the dangers of steroids are overstated and, hold onto your seats, may even be good for the heart. Let's examine some of the scientific studies on the positive effects of Testosterone on the heart.

    What are the cardiovascular effects of steroids?

    Cardiologists at the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital in Australia recruited both juicing and non-juicing bodybuilders for a study. Each bodybuilder had various aspects of the heart measured (carotid intima-media thickness, arterial reactivity, left ventricular dimensions, etc.). These measurements indicate whether bodybuilding, steroid usage or both affect the function, size, shape and activity of the heart.

    The doctors found some obvious and not so obvious results. Predictably, those bodybuilders who used steroids were physically stronger than those who didn't. What was surprising was that the use of steroids was not found to cause any significant changes or abnormalities of arterial structure or function.

    In essence, when the bodybuilders (both groups) were compared with sedentary controls, any changes in heart function were common to bodybuilders. The take home message from this study is that bodybuilding itself can alter (not impair) arterial structure/function and that steroids do not appear to impair cardiac function. (1)

    Does MRFIT need a T boost?

    A famous cardiac study was published about 10 years ago. It soon became on ongoing study known as the Multiple Risk Factor Intervention Trial (MRFIT). The present study examined changes in Testosterone over 13 years in 66 men aged 41 to 61 years. The researchers determined if changes in total Testosterone are related to cardiovascular disease risk factors.

    The average Testosterone levels at the beginning of the study were 751 ng/dl and decreased by 41 ng/dl. Men who smoked or exhibited Type A behavior were found to have even greater decreases in T levels. The change in Testosterone was also associated with an increase in triglyceride levels and a decrease in the good cholesterol (HDL).

    The authors concluded that decreases in Testosterone levels as observed in men over time are associated with unfavorable heart disease risk. (2) Sounds to me like a good reason to get T support/replacement therapy in the middle age years!

    In a similar study, researchers in Poland examined if Testosterone replacement therapy in aging men positively effected heart disease risk factors. Twenty-two men with low T levels received 200 mg of Testosterone enanthate every other week for one year. Throughout treatment, Testosterone, estradiol, total cholesterol, HDL and LDL were measured.

    The researchers determined that T replacement returned both Testosterone and estradiol levels back to normal and acceptable levels. They also found that T replacement lowered cholesterol and LDL (the bad cholesterol) without altering HDL (the good cholesterol). Furthermore, there was no change in prostate function or size.

    The take home message from this study is that T replacement doesn't appear to raise heart disease risk and it may actually lower your risk. (3) It appears that more physicians should be prescribing low dose Testosterone to middle age and aging men for both libido, muscle tone and for cardiac reasons.

    What about younger men?

    It's been long established that men have a higher risk of heart disease. One of the risk factors implicated is Testosterone. Reportedly, the recreational use of Testosterone can alter lipoprotein levels and, in fact, case reports exist describing bodybuilders who've abused steroids and have experienced heart disease or even sudden death. But the question remains, is the causal association one of truth or just an association?

    To answer this, researchers at the University of North Texas recruited twelve competitive bodybuilders for a comprehensive evaluation of the cardiovascular effects of steroids. Six heavyweight steroid-using bodybuilders were compared with six heavyweight drug-free bodybuilders.

    As expected, the heavy steroid users had lower total cholesterol and HDL levels as compared to the drug-free athletes. What was unexpected was that the steroid users also had significantly lower LDL (the bad cholesterol) and triglyceride levels as compared to the non-steroid users. In addition, the juicers also had lower apolipoprotein B levels (a marker for heart disease risk). Thus, the authors concluded that androgens do not appear to raise the risk of cardiovascular disease. (4) The take home message from this study is that the negative cardiac side effects of steroids are most likely overstated.

    In a little more progressive study, researchers at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in the Boogie Down Bronx (the BDB to those in the know) examined Testosterone as a possible therapy for cardiovascular disease. (5) The researchers note that T can be given in oral, injectable, pellet and transdermal delivery forms. It's noted that injections of Testosterone (100 to 200 mg every two weeks) in men with low levels of T will decrease total cholesterol and LDL while raising the HDL.

    In fact, Testosterone therapy has been found to have antianginal effects (reduces chest pain). Low levels of Testosterone are also correlated with high blood pressure, specifically high systolic pressure. The researchers determined that returning T levels back to normal and even high-normal levels have positive cardiovascular effects and should be considered as an adjunctive treatment for maintaining muscle mass when someone has congestive heart failure.

    Putting it all together

    Strong research demonstrates that the risks of negative cardiovascular effects of steroids are overstated. In fact, a recent paper published in the Canadian Journal of Applied Physiology questioned the whole risk of using steroids. (6) Joey Antonio, Ph.D. and Chris Street MS, CSCS published strong data showing that the risks of steroid use are largely exaggerated, much like scare tactics used by your parents while you were a kid. Of course, it goes unsaid that abuse of anything will lead to unwanted consequences.

    We know that as we age, circulating Testosterone levels naturally decrease. For most people the Testosterone decrease goes from high-normal to mid to low normal. Data shows that there's an inverse relationship between T levels and blood pressure as well as abdominal obesity (that paunch we see on so many middle age males).

    Testosterone replacement lowers abdominal obesity and restores Testosterone back to normal levels. Restored Testosterone is correlated with better mood, better muscle tone, stronger sex drive, lower cardiovascular disease risks, stronger bones and better memory. It's important to note that while conservative use gives a
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 26, 2007 10:16 AM GMT
    Testosterone replacement lowers abdominal obesity and restores Testosterone back to normal levels. Restored Testosterone is correlated with better mood, better muscle tone, stronger sex drive, lower cardiovascular disease risks, stronger bones and better memory. It's important to note that while conservative use gives a pronounced positive health benefit, higher doses may not necessarily lead to further health benefits.

    What to do

    If you see your body composition changing (your gut starts looking like your Uncle Lester's), your strength or muscle tone diminishing despite your hard training and good diet, and your sex drive not matching up to TC's columns, have your Testosterone levels checked. The acceptable normal range for Testosterone to physicians is 300 mg/dl to 1100 mg/dl. Yes, that's a pretty wide range.

    In the clinic, we see people with the complaints consistent with "andropause" (a term for male menopause) and/or increased cardiovascular risk having Testosterone levels between 300 mg/dl and 550 mg/dl. Bringing it up to the mid to high-normal level is what gives the health and "youthful" benefits. Traditionally 200 mg/dl of supplemental Testosterone given every one to two weeks improves body composition, lowers total cholesterol and LDL, while raising HDL.

    It appears that supplemental T is a healthier and safer way to go than many of the drugs used to treat poor lipid profiles. The data presented in this article applies for males over 35, not those who are 18. If you think that you can benefit from Testosterone therapy look for physicians who market themselves as "anti-aging" or "longevity physicians" as well as the more progressive endocrinologists or cardiologists.

    Long story short, used intelligently, Testosterone is good medicine!

    About the author: Douglas S. Kalman MS, RD is a Director for Miami Research Associates ( a leading pharmaceutical and nutrition research organization in Miami, Florida. Doug is also a national spokesperson for the American College of Sports Medicine and according to his latest test has high T levels. Doug can be reached at


    1) Sader MA, Griffiths KA, McCredie RJ, et al. Androgenic anabolic steroids and arterial structure and function in male bodybuilders. J Am Coll Cardiol 2001;37(1):224-230.

    2) Zmuda JM, Cauley JA, Kriska A, et al. Longitudinal relation between endogenous testosterone and cardiovascular disease risk factors in middle aged men. A 13 year follow-up of former Multiple Risk Factor Intervention Trial participants. Am J Epidemiol 1997;146(:609-617.

    3) Zgliczynski S, Ossowski M, Slowinska-Srednicka J, et al. Effect of testosterone replacement therapy on lipids and lipoproteins in hypogonadal and elderly men. Atherosclerosis 1996;121(1):35-43.

    4) Diekerman RD, McConathy WJ, Zachariah NY. Testosterone, sex hormone-binding globulin, lipoproteins and vascular disease risk. J Cardiovasc Risk 1997;4(5-6):363-366.

    5) Shapiro J, Christiana J, Frishman WH. Testosterone and other anabolic steroids as cardiovascular drugs. Am J Ther 1999;6(3):167-174.

    6) Antonio J, Street C. Androgen use by athletes: A reevaluation of the health risks. Can J Appl Physiol 1996;21(6):421-440.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 28, 2007 6:21 AM GMT
    before starting ask yourslef what your motivations are. Is your self esteem wrapped up in the way you look -how big your arms are, your chest? If not now you will find steroids elevate or link your body size and self esteem. Yes your life will change, people that never noticed you before are all of a sudden throwing themselves at you, people will step out off your way without you asking on the street, bus, subway. Straight women will want you, straight men will envy you, people at the gym will admire you. but then get ready to be used for your body, and objectified by people that are only into your arms, abs, ass, etc. but don't give a damn about you -this gets tired real fast when it comes so easy, your like what the fuck is this, people are so shallow.

    If you juice as part of a fitness life style it will have you seeking juice most of the time, keeping a variety of suppliers on hand. Dealing with some shady folks -being ripped off sometime or another. Alot of bodybuilders look great but are in some deep shit...posing for money, hustling, stealing, dealing. You ready to get needles from the harm reduction center or internet? you ready to worry about running out of juice before you finish the cycle. you ready to stick your ass so many times it is full of scare tissue, you ready for sus but (when the side of your ass you inject is bigger than the other)? you ready to have an uncontrollable sex drive that can lead to increase sexual activity and therefore more risk for STD's? you ready for an enlarged heart, you ready to take estrogen inhibitors to prevent bitch tits. But most of all will you be ready to come off the shit when it is time and face yourself as not the biggest baddest mother fucker in the gym or on the street but just some ordinary fuck.

    These things most juice heads have to go through, and your motivations are important. Do you get a high from lifting weights, do you like challenging yourself, do you like the feeling of being pumped, are you willing to eat right, study up on your gear, being disciplined to quite when it is time? and most important are you doing this for you? then you have what it takes to be a survivor and repetition is the name of the body building game, it takes time.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 28, 2007 6:38 AM GMT
    Read the study above.

    Most athletes, and in particular resistance trainers, have LVH (Left Venticular Hypertrophy) because they have very strong hearts. That's a normal accommodation to the loads, and actually shows decreased mortality.

    Because of the current law, there's all the parts of the underground involved, but, most supplies are easily obtainable online. You'd think folks would want someone using clean stuff, but, they obstruct it, so there's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Like most anything, you have to keep doing it. Be it fitness, or plastic surgery, or whatever. That's to be expected. Because it's driven into the underground it's harder and there's a whole industry based around it, and, once it's in the underground, and industry in the policing effort, but, such is the American way (illegal immigrants, pot, street drugs, and so on). Anytime anything is in high demand and forced into the underground popular culture will do whatever it needs to to accommodate demand. Like any medicine, if you want the effects, you have to keep taking it. That's the nature of chemical manipulation.

    Smart use of androgens has allowed folks well past thirty to engage in healthy lifestyles, inside of andropause. Go to a Master's bodybuilding contest somtime. It is amazing.

    The current misinformation will only hold so long, as more and more folks are my age (47) and beyond, and know the truth about all this stuff. I don't see the law changing soon, but, I think, that, at some point, there will become something more reasonable.

    There absolutely no reason folks should be forced into cholesterol meds and the like, needlessly.

    The upside of HIV research has shown time and again, that, even at very high doses, side effects are minimal, tolerable, and almost always correctable, even in the sickest of the sick, with the poorest of immune systems.

    Fluff is one thing, but, arguing with good science is quite another.

    Re-read the study.

    If some skinny guy thinks he's gonna become Branch Warren in 6 months on a bit of tesosterone, I'm afraid he's in for an awakening. Genes, as much as anything, play a HUGE part. I was 175 in high school at 5'5" at about 12%. That's genes, and I'm a classic meso / super meso somatype.

    Your point is very good about the whys.

    Lots of pressures.

    Bottom line, though is that apples to apples; oranges to oranges, and if things were legal as they used to be, being fat is way more dangerous than being on the sauce.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 28, 2007 11:41 AM GMT
    bluecaddy, are you absolutely sure you have done everything possible to build? are you really following a true bulking diet to the letter? is your routine designed for this? are you over/undertraining?

    chucky has all the facts, however, he talks about anti-aging therapy which is fine for older men. but you're 21, do you really want to commit yourself to a medical regime like this for years and years to come? plus all the other meds you'll need to control the side effects. can you even afford it?

    i know you'll think about it long and hard before you decide.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 28, 2007 11:50 AM GMT
    i've just noticed you're in a monogamous relationship. have you discussed it with him?

    i've known relationships split up over one of them taking steroids. personality can change. incredible confidence may seem like a blessing but it can bore others senseless. people can become very hardline, certain that only they are right, with little compassion for others' foibles. you only need to look around this forum to see exactly what i'm talking abouticon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 03, 2007 8:27 AM GMT
    Here's a good read:
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 03, 2007 10:43 AM GMT
    BlueCaddy17, Your way to young to even consider the use of Steroids. Hell at your age your Sternum has not even fused together yet, and will not until around the age of 25. LQQk into some exercises that will directly affect that area (overall width and deepth of your chest)!
    Go for that tight and toned LQQk! Decrease your time with the weights, but up your Intensity! Increase your aerobic time, and watchout for the crap you eat. Go natural, then in about another 10-15 years ask your question. By that time you will never know what science has come up with! Their are risks with Steroids, let no one tell you otherwise! As I said go natural, workout Intensly, and you will be surprised at the results!