Why do gay guys still feel discriminated against!!!???

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  Jan 09, 2008 8:38 AM GMT

  I have been reading allot of blogs and found that there is a growing number of gay guys that feel discriminated against. I myself might be in the fortunate position of living in the country that probably has the most liberal constitution in the world... But when I look at the American and British channels I find that the programming is very liberal and that gays experience more freedom than ever before. Why are gay guys still hung up on issues like people scrutinising or judging them, because I have not experienced any such things. On the contrary I have experienced more biggitry, snobbery and outright racisim from gay guys than any other hot blooded males or females that I have come accross in recent years. We live in scary but beautiful times and should rejoice for our freedom if nothing else!!!! We've already won the battle! Now stop fighting!!!

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  Jan 09, 2008 8:48 AM GMT

  the fight was for freedoms and for the most part we got that.
  
  We didn't plan on what we would do once we had them, so now we fight amongst our selfs.

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• GQjock
  
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  Jan 09, 2008 11:38 AM GMT

  it's very funny...
  I live in a city - not even a city
  a section of a city where gay men can walk down the street hand in hand and no one will say a word or even notice
  but you go say 20 miles away from here
  and you might as well be in bumf**k Alabama
  I'm in the only state that still discriminates against us in adoption
  there is every year a constitutional ballot amendment to ban gay marriage
  prejudice is alive and well in the good ole US of A

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  Jan 09, 2008 1:12 PM GMT

  Look, i'm not saying that I have never encountered prejudice people. Even in my own culture there are people, even family members, who disgrace me by their way of thought.
  It just trougbles me that the three main groups that were discriminated against in the past namely women, black people and homosexuals now seem to have become the main discriminators. One can maybe blame this on the nature of the human condition.
  In politics and the principles of economy it has been proven that the oppressed will always gain power in numbers and/or strength and will, in most cases, become the oppressor. this same concept was also scetched so beautifully in George Orwel's satirical novel: 'Animal Farm' and in countless other similar books.
  I guess a part of my question was a plee to all fellow homosexuals to stop hating and live life like you love yourself.

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  Jan 09, 2008 4:08 PM GMT

  MrVenturu,
  
  I'm just guessing here, but you don't live in the South or Mountain West, do you?
  
  And cities in those regions with a population of over 100,000 or host a college/university within their borders do not count...

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  Jan 09, 2008 4:44 PM GMT

  Count your blessings ...
  Growing up in a small town in a redneck family has made me more tolerable of stupid people. I am also more likely not to tolerate bad behavior or personal disrespect from anyone( other homosexuals included ).
  
  But by simple association and fun, queens tend to be more campy. We also tend to like our own cliques- it's just our safety zone...But by assuming anyone in general are haters you are cheating yourself out of relationships and experiences that could make the most memorable times of your life....
  
  Never forget our fight for EQUAL RIGHTS is what we need to concentrate on now...when state constitutional amendments are made to keep us second rate citizens and the president even publicly states the same ideas, we are no way, no how close to being equal to our peers....

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  Jan 09, 2008 4:46 PM GMT

  MrVenturu said...
  It just trougbles me that the three main groups that were discriminated against in the past namely women, black people and homosexuals now seem to have become the main discriminators. One can maybe blame this on the nature of the human condition. ...
  I guess a part of my question was a plee to all fellow homosexuals to stop hating and live life like you love yourself.

  
  
  have you ever browsed web forums filled with young men? ever been around a park? "that's so gay" "you fag" and a dozen dozen more phrases. they fill the air so frequently that it's like standing by a highway watching the cars go by during rush hour.
  
  prejudice and hate are alive and well and being taught to the next generation as reliably as how to eat.
  
  while i get irritated by some things, i'm not filled with hate and i very much love life and am very happy and supportive around people.

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• NickoftheNort...
  
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  Jan 09, 2008 4:58 PM GMT

  MrVenturu,
  
  Gay persons and other persons that are part of the LGBTQ identity still suffer from negative differential treatment. By and large, our societies deny us public recognition of our relationships while recognizing female-male relationships and granting those relationships special legal benefits. Our societies deny us our abilities to parent. In many places, our societies allow our employers to fire us based on our LGBTQ identification and the expression of our consensual affections.
  
  And that's just in North America and the western portion of Europe. Take a step into eastern Europe and you will find a far worse situation, including nationalist violence (which still exists in N.Am. and w.Eu. to a smaller extent), official sanctioning against LGBTQ persons (during the reign of the twins in Poland, the twins began legislation toward prohibiting mentioning homosexuality in schools and barring LGBTQ persons from teaching), and continued social demonization (in part, courtesy of the Roman Catholic Church).
  
  After that, you draw samples from around the world to find horrid abuses toward LGBTQ (and even some unexpected reasons for hope; example: one of Pakistan's biggest television celebrities is a "trisexual", liberal, drag artist interviewer of the powerful).
  
  Our stuggles, even though we may have little in common on an individual basis (you'll find numerous examples in the RJ forums), continue and we have reasons to struggle side-by-side.

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  Jan 09, 2008 6:19 PM GMT

  There is absolutely no fluid argument/point to this post. Basically he's saying, stop whining based on his own experiences, which aren't even clear.
  
  Mr. Ventuuru... if you have a point or argument or something you're trying to say, why don't you give it two seconds of thought before you post, that way people can actually respond appropriately.

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  Jan 09, 2008 6:37 PM GMT

  MrVenturu, what you say may be accurate where you live; I won't presume to speak for you. How about you do the same and don't make generalizations about people in the US? And please don't draw any conclusions about life in the US from the programming on "American and British channels." It's been a long time since I saw anything on TV which even remotely resembled real life. Probably "Roseanne" is the closest thing I can think of to life in middle America.
  
  Discrimination is very real here in terms of work, health care, insurance, and legal issues. Not to mention open prejudice still seen in the streets and bars. As for "homosexuals" being the main discriminators, I see no evidence whatsoever. Around here, gay bars are the most open places you can go-- one of the few places where all ethnicities, gender identities, and classes mingle freely, and gays are among the most active groups in charity work and human rights.
  
  I know of no group whose members work more tirelessly and faithfully for the common good in the face of open discrimination than do gays in the US.

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  Jan 09, 2008 6:40 PM GMT

  MrVenturu saidI have been reading allot of blogs and found that there is a growing number of gay guys that feel discriminated against.

  
  
  There are a growing number of online blogs, so maybe it just looks like there's a "growing number" of gays who feel discriminated against, MrVenturu. In fact, discrimination of many forms is still prevalent, as others have noted. I don't think this means we are more discriminatory, bigoted, or otherwise hateful in return.
  
  Maybe, in this era in which - as you point out - our society is more liberal and we enjoy more freedoms in general, people feel more "free" to address those remaining social stigmas rather than suffer them silently. I, for one, think this is a good thing. Far scarier and worse would be a society in which anybody - regardless of race, orientation, or anything else - felt oppressed into silent acquiescence.

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  Jan 09, 2008 6:47 PM GMT

  The "main" perpetrators of bigotry? Going to need some numbers for something like that. In your experience? Possibly. But it certainly doesn't match mine (or apparently many other people's).

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  Jan 09, 2008 6:55 PM GMT

  Current laws are the reason. They are discriminatory. That's why gay people 'feel' discriminated against. Because they are discriminated against.

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  Jan 09, 2008 6:56 PM GMT

  MrVenturu saidI have been reading allot of blogs and found that there is a growing number of gay guys that feel discriminated against. I myself might be in the fortunate position of living in the country that probably has the most liberal constitution in the world... But when I look at the American and British channels I find that the programming is very liberal and that gays experience more freedom than ever before. Why are gay guys still hung up on issues like people scrutinising or judging them, because I have not experienced any such things. On the contrary I have experienced more biggitry, snobbery and outright racisim from gay guys than any other hot blooded males or females that I have come accross in recent years. We live in scary but beautiful times and should rejoice for our freedom if nothing else!!!! We've already won the battle! Now stop fighting!!!

  
  
  
  Girl, come to America, take a little trip outside major metropolitan areas -- you'll see the discrimination you haven't encountered in South Africa...
  
  Better yet, why not take a trip to the Middle East? It's very homo-friendly there.

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  Jan 09, 2008 6:56 PM GMT

  GLBT youth are 50% more likely to commit suicide than their hetero peers
  
  GLBT students are 5X more likely to skip school due to fear of harassment.
  
  Dozens of people were murdered last year in the US due to their sexual orientation.
  
  There are over 1,200 civil rights guaranteed by marriage that gay couples do not enjoy.
  
  So, because the state does not hang people for being queer the battle is won? Well then, I will just cancel my HRC membership, vote for Huckabee, and stick my head up my ass.

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  Jan 09, 2008 6:58 PM GMT

  MunchingZombie saidGLBT youth are 50% more likely to commit suicide than their hetero peers
  
  GLBT students are 5X more likely to skip school due to fear of harassment.
  
  Dozens of people were murdered last year in the US due to their sexual orientation.
  
  There are over 1,200 civil rights guaranteed by marriage that gay couples do not enjoy.
  
  So, because the state does not hang people for being queer the battle is won? Well then, I will just cancel my HRC membership, vote for Huckabee, and stick my head up my ass.

  
  Dude, if Huckabee wins you won't be allowed to stick your head up your ass!! Think these things through!

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  Jan 09, 2008 7:00 PM GMT

  HAHAHAHAHA!

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• NickoftheNort...
  
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  Jan 09, 2008 7:22 PM GMT

  If you're genuinely interested in information on the discrimination against LGBTQ persons, I'll point you to the 2006 report by the International Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender and Queer Youth and Student Organization:
  
  Social exclusion of young lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people (LGBT) in Europe (APRIL 2006)
  [from the website]
  Young lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people across Europe face discrimination and exclusion in their everyday life. They experience estrangement from family, bullying and marginalisation at school, which can lead to such problems as underachievement and school drop-out, low self-esteem and mental ill-health. These in turn have a negative impact on the capacity of young LGBT people to manage the transition from school to work and to become confident and independent adults who can contribute to society.
  
  This joint report by IGLYO and ILGA-Europe is a response to the need to bring attention to the social exclusion of young LGBT people in Europe and to put the issue on the agenda of national and European policy-makers. This publication highlights the effect that discrimination on the ground of sexual orientation and gender identity has on young LGBT people’s capacity to be socially included and to become active citizens. It also raises awareness about the multiple forms of discrimination that interact to put young LGBT people at a particular disadvantage and risk of exclusion.
  The report (PDF)

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  Jan 09, 2008 8:04 PM GMT

  MrVenturu saidI have been reading allot of blogs and found that there is a growing number of gay guys that feel discriminated against. I myself might be in the fortunate position of living in the country that probably has the most liberal constitution in the world... But when I look at the American and British channels I find that the programming is very liberal and that gays experience more freedom than ever before. Why are gay guys still hung up on issues like people scrutinising or judging them, because I have not experienced any such things. On the contrary I have experienced more biggitry, snobbery and outright racisim from gay guys than any other hot blooded males or females that I have come accross in recent years. We live in scary but beautiful times and should rejoice for our freedom if nothing else!!!! We've already won the battle! Now stop fighting!!!

  
  MrVenturu,
  I remembered something wise my family used to tell me when I was growing up. "Don't believe everything you read in the paper, see on television, or hear on the street." With that MrVenturu, you can't expect your or real or ours in America to be the same as the watered down, scripted, manipulated truth you see on your news or whatever form of media you understand American life by.
  And Yes, we do have a few more rights now than we had so many years ago. We can say a few more things than we could last year, go a few places as couples than we could a few years ago, and do a few more things, but we can't do things on equal ground heterosexuals. Now why is that? Oh, let's see... Discrimination!
  See, just because a lot more people have warmed up to the gay community, doesn't mean that the government has warmed up to it as well. If anything, the government has taken a firmer stand against homosexuality under the banner of Christian/Conservative/(whatever)American Values. It's just political bullshit. And bullshit sir, is what keeps you foreigners coming to America thinking that you can easily just work your way to the American Dream. It's not as easy anymore, and not everyone can have All, if any, of the American Dream at all.
  Secondly, gays do bicker about being discriminated against, and it has gotten old, and it'll get even older as our obtuse politicians continue to solomly serve the special interest groups and public response system you know as the news.
  It's unfair that you should see Americans Gays as ingrateful faggots litering the gold paved roads of American Democracy, since you sir have Not lived in the country that preaches almost unlimited freedoms, but hides the fine print from you until your old enough to pay your taxes. You should make an effort to visit of great country. Know what it's like to have people call you faggot because it's still socially acceptable, and the only comfort you get is from the security/police that, if not gay or gay friendly, feel obligated/forced to display.
  But understand this. There are many many homosexuals who love this county. We are greatful for our freedoms. We even die silently in the military for them, in a social hierarchy built specifically against us. So don't image us to be ingrateful and un-American drama queens bitching for every little thing. We are just like you and we see over the pickett fence where the grass is greener, and we want more.
  Does that answer your question?
  Peace<3

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• Squarejaw
  
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  Jan 09, 2008 8:18 PM GMT

  I worked at the University of Southern California in the middle of a very gay city, with openly gay men throughout the university administration. I was openly gay there myself.
  
  The boss of my department would praise me to outsiders; people we worked gave my boss glowing feedback about me. But every time something went wrong, my boss would immediately blame me, even though he couldn't specify why.
  
  After our whole department was cut and I was working elsewhere, I asked a former colleague (and my boss's best friend at work) why I was the boss's whipping boy. She answered simply, "Oh, he was very homophobic."
  
  It hadn't even occurred to me that I was being discriminated against. It was an eye-opener.

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  Jan 10, 2008 1:46 AM GMT

  sickothesame saidDude, if Huckabee wins you won't be allowed to stick your head up your ass!! Think these things through!

  
  
  HA! I thought that was the only thing Huckabee liked up there. He didn't even save his head for marriage.

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  Jan 10, 2008 3:04 AM GMT

  Why do I feel discriminated against? I can't marry my partner, therefore I can't be with my partner who is Australian who can not get a visa because we are not married (this is a bad sentence but reflects my frustration). If that were not enough, I serve in the military and live under the Don't Ask, Don't Tell Policy..... So, it seems that perhaps gay people truly are 2nd class citizens in the good old USA.

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  Jan 10, 2008 3:30 AM GMT

  wellwell said"Why do gays still feel discriminated against...?"
  
  
  My guess would be: Paranoia.

  
  
  Oh, so you CAN marry? You CAN file joint income taxes? You CAN travel across country without being harassed by Oklahoma State Troopers?
  
  How nice for you.

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  Jan 10, 2008 4:45 AM GMT

  I am reminded by James Carville's remark about Pennsylvania: "It's Pittsburgh on one side, Philadelphia on the other, and Alabama right down the middle."
  
  Well, I think all of America is Alabama if you're not in a major city or college town. And I am not disparraging Alabama, but using Carville's remark to make a point. Birmingham, Huntsville and Mobile have strong gay communities and a populace more on par with bigger cities than provincial regions.
  
  I love New York and Los Angeles, and I love the enlightenment in both cities, but get just a little bit out of the hub and you're in "Alabama" in the way of thinking. Go in any direction off Manhattan island. Get out of Los Angles in any direction (except west to the ocean, of course). It's no different than it is in Alabama or Kansas or my native West Virginia. In fact, I never hear the word "faggot" shouted at someone here in WV, but I've heard it shouted at people in New York.
  
  We live in a nation that has become far more accepting but we make that judgment based on the past, not on what it could be. America could do so much better with this issue but people haven't been challenged enough to grow on the subject.
  
  

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  Jan 10, 2008 5:23 AM GMT

  MunchingZombie saidGLBT youth are 50% more likely to commit suicide than their hetero peers
  
  GLBT students are 5X more likely to skip school due to fear of harassment.
  
  Dozens of people were murdered last year in the US due to their sexual orientation.
  
  There are over 1,200 civil rights guaranteed by marriage that gay couples do not enjoy.
  
  So, because the state does not hang people for being queer the battle is won? Well then, I will just cancel my HRC membership, vote for Huckabee, and stick my head up my ass.

  
  
  Amen

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